Tailteann Games

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Tailteann Games

Postby Amhran Nua on Tue May 26, 2009 4:46 pm

Hello, my first post on Living History, and apologies to the mods and members if this is in the wrong place. I'm working with a new group which has been founded recently to help address certain issues in Ireland, and encourage a growth in Irish culture. Anyway, the main reason I'm posting here is we are interested especially in restarting the ancient Tailteann games, a sort of "Celtic olympics", and would like to hear any feedback or suggestions from your members on the potential for historical reenactment and actual competitive games in these events, and any involvement they would see themsevles having in such an event. More information can be found here

http://amhrannua.com/irish-politics-policy?page_id=23

Thanks for any ideas or support you many have!
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Re: Tailteann Games

Postby Dave Mooney on Tue May 26, 2009 6:07 pm

Interesting movement friend. Are you a proper political party? I hope so, I'm done in with all these left overs from the civil war and subsequent offspring. We need new parties with new perspectives.

Anyhow...We, Mogh Roith, had a competition tabled out once upon a time for such an event. We had several sections to the competition that was on an accumulative scoring system leading to an 'Ultimate Warrior' knock out game. We had it designed so that people could just do their specialised event, with an award for each, but you had to do all events to qualify for the Ultimate warrior event. The games and scoring was also tailored so that small and weak could have a fair go against big and strong over the mix of events. It was a test of all the warrior basics of skill, stamina, mobility, accuracy etc.
We never got it together unfortunately. (I may be able to find our design notes)

I see the name is being used elsewhere including GAA. It would have to be of a warrior interest for us to be bothered and not limited to GAA activities.

Dave.
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Re: Tailteann Games

Postby Amhran Nua on Tue May 26, 2009 7:25 pm

Hello Dave, we're a political group starting off at the moment until we get the required three hundred signatures and a willing TD to become recognised, which shouldn't take too long. The Tailteann games as revived back in the 20s included all sorts of sports including air races and swimming, so any sport that wants to be a part of it is more than welcome. I think the theme is rather fitting to the warrior arts however, given the historical roots of the games, so I could imagine those being an important part of it. We're trying to link the ancient past to the present and help ourselves get more in contact with that connection, so its more than a grandiose community games.

If you could find those notes it would be much appreciated!
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Re: Tailteann Games

Postby Amhran Nua on Wed May 27, 2009 4:26 pm

Would specific facilities be best, or could we renovate some of the many old ruins around the country and give them a new lease on life?
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Aha

Postby Amhran Nua on Sat Jul 11, 2009 10:51 am

I came across something very interesting with regard to the martial element of the Tailteann games, it can be found here:

http://johnwhurley.com/shillelagh.htm

These sticks were used in various ways – Irish stick-fighting styles were more methods of combat than strictly stylized and adhered to "martial arts" – � ce�in pa�rns of common styles did exist. Some evidence suggests that there may have been many types of basic stick (fighting) games or training activities used by the Irish. b]Early references mention the Fiancluichi, a series of games for aristocratic (and hence warrior) youths, and these may have included various forms of martial arts and stick-fighting. We know for example, that the Fiancluichi seem to have included: /b]

Camánac� �a�� o�u�ng �ng what looked like walking-sticks, similar to todays shinty;

Iomainacht - similar to modern day hurling.

A type of play used in both of these styles was called Scuabín or�quo�Scoo��quot�and�volv�whole parishes and villages in cross-country matches, where the first goal won the game. These Scuabín mat�es su�ived �o t� mode�era a�seem �have been an ancient Gaelic Celtic form of the Norman "melée"� used � simula�comba� If Hur�g and �abín on��mprised p�t of th�iancluich� it may� that the�ancluic�referred to an actual curriculum of martial arts training. Other stick-fighting arts which might have fallen under the category of the Fiancluichi, may have been:

Sleádóireach�(� spear pl�)�Lansaí�t�r l�ce-fig�i�), (�s�o�re�t) - i�-�ped l��,�d j�lins which coul�lso be use�ike thrusting or slashing swords. These would all fall under the term "Ropaireacht" or stabbing violence;

Maide Ceathrún or quarte�taff play - iron-�od (long) s�f fighting;

Cleathad�or wattling�shorter than quar�staff and n�shod with iron;

Cleith aílpín or alpe� p�y - shorter than�ua�erstaff, �et�s using a (four foot �ng�stick wit� k� at one end.

Ba�Mó�ata Tríú �re�stic��ird stick - �ing a 3 t��foo�tick with��hands, dividing the�tick roug��int�hirds.

S��lle or shill�g�play - ��a f� foot lon�� shod with ir�at both ends.

Claíomhóireacht or old�r��swordsmanship - �racteriz� by�he "cut a�t�" of the Iri�Broadsword, which �s l�er referred to� Ba�reacht or Bata(ireacht) Pio�, o�acksword/singl�ick�Probably separate from (and in some cases definitely later than) the original Fiancluichi, were other Irish stick-fighting arts, including:

Trodaireacht Dó Bata (lit. "tw�stick fighting") or cudgel pla�- possibly sword and�gger play from the 16th century, although there �e probably native Ir� styles prior to this. Two sticks w� used, one 3 feet lo�and the second 14 inches long; in the pan-European style, both sticks had basket hilts;

Bataireacht/Bata(ireacht) Pionsa or backsword/singlestick - using the 3 foot cudgel from the Troid Dó Bata, by itself;

Ba�(ireacht) Siúil Éille/Maide Láimhe � ��ing-stick - �ing a 3�ot walking-s�ck �thout a bask�-hilt�ith� without a �;

Smísteoireacht or �gelling� usi� a �ort bludgeon�r tru�e��ionsó�eacht �later I�h swo��nship�cha�terized by t�"�rus�mp;qu�; of t�Rapie� later Sma�Sword, Foil an�peé.

It is hard to say exactl�how or when t��arts evolved into their ��o�rn form, but certainly by t�19th century, the �s of Irish stick-fencing o�ataireacht, can be �vided into seven main categ�es:

Maide Ceathrú or quarterstaff, which divi�s � stick into quarters for gr�ing;

Cleathadh � two-handed wattle fighting,�ipping the stick like a sword;

Bata Mór/Bata Tríú or two-handed wat�e f�htin��hich divides the stick�to thirds for gri�ing;

Shi��agh or one-handed �tle�ght��th the Bata Mór;

Troda�acht Dó Bata or two-stick fighting;

B��Pionsa o��ngle-stick play;

�steoir�ch��runcheon f�hting. o/quotes

In any �ival of t��lteann games, woul�t not be ��a to make the�iancluichi a stron�and distinct thread for historica�eenactment? You could expand it � inclu�MMA and that sort �thing as well, but the historical stuff would be by far the most spectacular as well as the most visually pleasing. As an addendum to that, here is a remnant of old Irish stick fighting still around in Newfoundland.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=REvuqH8cRJc

Fascinating stuff, a native Irish martial art.
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Re: Tailteann Games

Postby Amhran Nua on Sat Jul 11, 2009 10:54 am

Your forum appears to have utterly mangled that post. The last section reads:

In any revival of the Tailteann games, would it not be an idea to make the Fiancluichi a strong and distinct thread for historical reeenactment? You could expand it to include MMA and that sort of thing as well, but the historical stuff would be by far the most spectacular as well as the most visually pleasing. As an addendum to that, here is a remnant of old Irish stick fighting still around in Newfoundland.

Just click on the links to get the details I guess...
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Re: Tailteann Games

Postby Dave Mooney on Sat Jul 11, 2009 6:56 pm

It hates fadas to death. Remove them and it'll sort its self. Pain in the hoop though.
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