help with kit

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help with kit

Postby Fahey on Wed May 06, 2009 11:43 pm

hello , im new here and looking to put together a solders kit for 4-5 th C,
http://www.gaelagusgall.org/gaelweb/kit.html
i found this site but it is 9th C
are styles the same or were should i look? :?:
any helps is greatly appreciated
or would this be more helpfull?
http://ironage-history.com/brigantia/about.htm
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Re: help with kit

Postby Nerva on Thu May 07, 2009 11:20 am

Salve Conri!

We run a good iron age Celtic re-enactment section. If that period is of interest to you I can give you a few contacts that should be able to help you out.

Vale
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Re: help with kit

Postby Dave Mooney on Thu May 07, 2009 2:47 pm

Conri wrote:hello , im new here and looking to put together a solders kit for 4-5 th C,
http://www.gaelagusgall.org/gaelweb/kit.html
i found this site but it is 9th C
are styles the same or were should i look? :?:
any helps is greatly appreciated
or would this be more helpfull?
http://ironage-history.com/brigantia/about.htm


Hi Conri,
We've got little or nothing in the line of finds for the Iron Age in Ireland, goat skin cloak's about it I think. We have to look to the UK and Europe for soft stuff like clothes. The first stop would need to be to the Tullundman site http://www.tollundman.dk/toej.asp and then the second one Gallica site http://www.gallica.co.uk/celts/clothing2.htm

Basics are: Go for short tunic and/or Unar (Sleeveless looks good over tunic) in wool, in plain colours, Some check or plaid is ok (I'm wearing some this season to put it out there) I'd discourage everyone wearing it at the same time (no need to make it a pyjama trip to the local garage :P ) Linen under tunic as an extra layer or for hot weather and work conditions is ok as well. Avoid gores. A leather Unar as a form of armour would be useful if you are fielding/fighting. Trews of wool, here you can add extra panels to the gusset as per the Thorsbjerg trews (dated 5th to 6th Cen however). I just have one panel as a gusset joining the legs together. Consider short trews as well. Short cloak would be needed for Warrior and that can be semi circular or square. Watch our how many colours are in it and what rank you're playing if you go near the Brehon law eras. Shoes are tricky so we go with Lucas type 3 as a very basic shoe http://www.personal.utulsa.edu/~marc-ca ... SHOE55.HTM Or the designs at the Gallica site. We wear crois instead of leather belts. Save the leather for load bearing on sword belts etc. Not a hard rule just sets you aside visually. There are plenty of jewellery and fixings found to localise you to Irish Iron age or into Early Christian/Historic Gael. Watch out for the Torcs if shopping on-line. The really nice ones aren't quite right for here. Same goes for the Fibulae, we've resorted to making our own ones. Armament: Spears would be the most common weapon so start there. Regardless if you want to play with sword you'd have a spear first. Swords would be expensive, especially as they seem to have a lot of bling value in the scabards. We have two shields finds and only one really gives an idea of shape and size.
Clonourashield2.jpg
From: Pagan Celtic Ireland, by Barry Raftery.
Clonourashield2.jpg (94.41 KiB) Viewed 3489 times


We've not decided yet if we'll chance any of the UK/Euro patterns here yet but it would be unrealistic (and too uniform) to all have the same shield as it's doubtful whether they'd have been an issued item.
We've not a clue on helms but I'd go for a very simple leather or steel dome just for safety if fielding. We don't use them for duels.

The above is very broadly Iron Age, and general, and not all the info may match your 4-5th Cen inquiry exactly. If anyone can narrow the field go for it!

Hope that helps.

Dave.
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Mogh Roith- Historical Living History Group. http://moghroith.org
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Re: help with kit

Postby Nerva on Thu May 07, 2009 2:59 pm

Is that a square scutum I see before me ;)
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Legion Ireland - Roman Military Society of Ireland
Pilus Prior Cohors VIII Legionis XX Valeria Victrix

http://www.romanarmy.ie

info@romanarmy.ie

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Re: help with kit

Postby Dave Mooney on Thu May 07, 2009 3:06 pm

Aren't they only curved in one plane and framed at the back? The Clonoura shield seems to be honed from solid timber in two planes and not a simple curved affair.

Must have been a big Alder tree, I've not seen one big enough to give you a board that wide.
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Re: help with kit

Postby Nerva on Thu May 07, 2009 3:16 pm

By Neptunes thorny thing-a-me-jig :shock: Made feom a single piece fo wood...

So called "Square" scuta were curved in one plane only but other scuta were domed shaped, but none were constructed from a single piece of wood. The Roman technique was to use 3 or more laminated layers using wooded strips.
Vale

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Legion Ireland - Roman Military Society of Ireland
Pilus Prior Cohors VIII Legionis XX Valeria Victrix

http://www.romanarmy.ie

info@romanarmy.ie

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Re: help with kit

Postby Dave Mooney on Thu May 07, 2009 3:24 pm

I've only got that bit of text with the image to go on regards the make-up of the shield. The bit of text and image in O'Kelly's Early Ireland is based on that, is missing the horizontal section and doesn't say. I'll need to get Raftery's book some day!
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Re: help with kit

Postby Fahey on Thu May 07, 2009 10:30 pm

:D thank you everyone for all the info.
i was not sure if the continental style was the same in ireland.(i live in the U.S. :oops: , info i hard for me to find)
the linen tunic would the sleeves the tight ? or more of a strait tube? could it too be sleeveless?
wool over tunic . with or with out sleeves
i do have dear leather padded sleeveless tunic i made a little while ago,it ends just below my belt.
good to know long and short trews will work :)
the shoes i have a similar pale i got them hear
http://www.medievalmoccasins.com/Mercha ... y_Code=HTM
a few years ago still hold u great ( i know the added sole is not propper)
i have this nice thick weave pattern belt made of smaller strips of leather, i does not look like a normal braided leather belt. it looks more like a tablet weave done with leather and ties closed , no buckle. would that be appropriate ?
i will be on look out for a good torc, i fell for one of the baddly made ones a few years back. :roll: any links would be great ;)
i do plan on useing spear and shield combo. i was not sure if shields were rectangular or round .
what style knives if any? would it be similar to the seax?
Nerva yes please any links would be great , i love to learn :D
it just seems everyone i know(locally,) is into roman or continental in this time, some briton interests but i the only lover of my grandma,s(both)homelands
thank you for all the help
the tollund man site is very nice thank you , but for the boy they dont seem to mention what he wearing under the cloak, linen / wool shirt, and doesnt seem he is wearing trews?
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Re: help with kit

Postby Dave Mooney on Thu May 07, 2009 11:44 pm

Jeez, Don't be paying those prices for that stuff. The leather is all wrong looking, as well as the sole. They are modelled on a Danish bog shoe/Roman type shoes. The Roman ones may have sole with hob nails et al but the Danish ones are just the one piece plus thonging or sinew to lace. (On soles however; modern surfaces may require you to fit soles so keep them well under out of sight.

The linen top can be sleeveless if you really want. Sleeves are normally narrower at the wrist getting wider as the go. This is so you will have room to bend your elbow and swing your arm. Under garments would be narrower then outer so the fit one under the other with out gathering at the elbows. Your weather conditions may be generally warmer and dryer than ours. We have to be ready for snow in June the way things are going.

No, a Seax would be very distinctive, very Norse. Just go for straight back, or bullet shaped, single sided blade with antler, bone or wood handles for utility knives. Think tool first weapon second. There are several dagger patterns about as well for the weapon part. They'd be double edged.

Bed time.........
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Re: help with kit

Postby Fahey on Fri May 08, 2009 12:11 am

thank you on the shoes dave.
ya summer weather here gets into the 90,s with almost 100% humidity as well :( it gets bad some days
i was thinking about 3/4 length for linen and a little shorter for the wool tunic
and no seax, thank you :D
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