Trying to orientate....

Viking, Saxon, and Early Christian Irish cultures

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Trying to orientate....

Postby mouse on Tue Mar 31, 2009 11:05 pm

Hey all!

Just wondering if anyone can help me out - I'm looking to bring a more Irish thread into my ongoing Skjoldmø research. I have now collected a lot of solid, general stuff, but would like to bring my display round to being a little more relevant for an Irish audience.

To start with, I have been trying to follow their geographical movement & have so far tracked sources from Danelaw outward with positive hits in Southwest Scotland, Wales, Kernow & a potential link through Freydí�Eirík�ótt�, with the Norse exploration of North America.

From that, I'm investigating the theory that with Skjoldmø ac�vity on all sides, there certainly will have been Skjoldmø inv�ved in raids on Ireland etc, but, assuming this is correct, what I would like to investigate is:

1) When did they start settling in Ireland? (still running with the theory that there were settlers, as this was the pattern with other areas they spread to)
2) Where?

Being as I'm directionally dyslexic, I'm particularly going to need help with q2 - particularly if anyone has research on exact wheres & whens of sackings & preferably settlement patterns, ideally with dates.
However, I would also be interested in swapping notes with anyone else who's been looking at either the Skjoldmø them�lves; law circa 800-1000CE - esp in relation to land/property & to integration of Norse into early Irish law; Corresponding social history relating to "indiginous" (for want of a better word) Irish women.


So what do people think?

Thanks
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Re: Trying to orientate....

Postby mouse on Tue Mar 31, 2009 11:10 pm

Apologies for typos in first message - teething trouble with system
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Re: Trying to orientate....

Postby Kirst on Tue Apr 07, 2009 12:48 pm

The shortest answer possible that I have for you, without listing out all the dates and places I know, would be to suggest you research the irish annals.

They are the best documentary resource for that period of irish history, and they mention the date and place where vikings have raided/settled/been defeated etc.

It starts from 795 with the first documented raid on rathlin island (either rathlin up the north or else lambay), but it is quite possible that other raids had happened, just not important enough to note down. They list the foundings of various longphorts (which were their camping base until they set up the towns, no women or children (that weren't irish slaves anyway, that we know of) etc. I can't remember if the annals state the founding of the towns, but its starts with waterford in 914, cork 915, limerick 916 and ends with dublin 918/919 (with arklow and wexford chucked in there).

As for settlement locations, Ned Kelly of the national museum is doing a lot of work along the west coast of ireland based on viking sourced place names, looking for settlements (weighstation type settlements) and possible boat burials. He is hoping to conclude with evidence for vikings all along the coast of Ireland. But that work won't be out for a few years. There is however some work done of the towns and their hinterlands based on random rescue excavtions throughout the county of dublin.

I have a few names of books that will probably help, but not with me right now. I'll post them up when I get the chance.
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Re: Trying to orientate....

Postby mouse on Tue Apr 07, 2009 2:06 pm

Thanks Kirst - that's a fab jumping off list. Looks like I'm going to be busy over the bank holiday weekend!

Presumably the source you have with no women/children recorded is reffering to "indiginous" women? - We definitely have SKjoldmo in & around the area, & certainly the behaviour pattern is likely to include sacking & settling, just no landing points as yet.

I'll also post back anything I find - thanks for the starting direction hon!
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Re: Trying to orientate....

Postby the_power on Tue Apr 07, 2009 6:15 pm

The recent book "Vikings in Ireland" is a wonderfully up-to-date summary piece on landing, raiding, settling, politics & assimilation. http://www.oxbowbooks.com/bookinfo.cfm/ ... tion/Oxbow - alas it hasn't a single piece on shield-maidens :(

John
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Re: Trying to orientate....

Postby mouse on Tue Apr 07, 2009 10:29 pm

Thanks for that John - I'll take a look.

Shield maidens are the ones that appear in popular literature - you wont find them in any historical source. The only similarity is the linguistic stem.

That said, I'm getting the impression there's even less women displaying as Skjoldmo out here than there are in Britain.
Ah well - they said it'd be fun - not necessarily easy.

I'm also desperately trying to title of the other book you recommended - I may go & visit Martyn at some point this fortnight, so I'll ask him about it (assuming I can remember the title).
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Re: Trying to orientate....

Postby the_power on Wed Apr 08, 2009 9:17 am

"The archaeology of Weapons" by Oakeshott is the wonderful book on weapons I was talking about. Though, the more recent "Weapons and warfare in Viking and Medieval Ireland" is also really good for viking weapons in an irish context... http://shop.museum.ie/p-80-weapons-and- ... ublin.aspx - he also details how the warfare was carried out. Again, no mention of women fighting :(

It might be worth trying to contact both authors directly, and see did they find anything like that in the course of their work...

John
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Re: Trying to orientate....

Postby mouse on Wed Apr 08, 2009 9:26 am

Thanks for that John.


Oh boy! Mt. To-be-read is steadily growing. - Guess that's what you get for combining bookcrossing & re-enactment!! ;)
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Re: Trying to orientate....

Postby Kirst on Sun Apr 19, 2009 4:43 pm

mouse wrote:Presumably the source you have with no women/children recorded is reffering to "indiginous" women?!


Well no scandinavian women anyway. It is likely they captured native women/children etc for slaves to keep and sell off. Are are reports of Vikings in longphort bases all dying from disease quite suddenly, presumably because of bad sanitary conditions. Male vikings did not build a pit for human refuse. Slaves or women did it. If there were none, they did without said pit.... thats the only information I know about women in relation to longphorts :P
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Re: Trying to orientate....

Postby mouse on Sat May 16, 2009 3:17 pm

Thanks for that Kirst

Seems like a nice little sideline to build in at some point further down the track.

Unfortunately it seems that it's not in the best interests of my team to continue with the Skjoldmo display at this juncture. If anyone would like to take on my research etc to incorporate into their own Skjoldmo display, then I'd be happy to help. - Meanwhile, I'm going to continue with the research purely from my own fascination - but very much on a backburner behind other re-enactment stuff.
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