Posh irish kit - am I period or not .com ?

Viking, Saxon, and Early Christian Irish cultures

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Any good ?

Looks good
11
57%
OK from 10 feet
4
21%
I'd let that into my gig, if he brought mead
2
10%
Dog rough
2
10%
Car Blanket & Crowbar brigade
0
No votes
 
Total votes : 19

Posh irish kit - am I period or not .com ?

Postby the_power on Tue Jan 27, 2009 7:49 am

So, I went to Flags as a seriously posh 10thC Irish guy at flags 2009. One of the better pics of me is on the Roman Army website (shown below). However, i'm looking to make a few changes to make it look a bit better...

How about; adding a hood to the green under leine. It's currently silk trimmed. I was originally made for hastings, hence the gores. But I can't think of a reason I couldn't stick a hood on it, and call it a posh Irish leine. If you note, I'm wearing hose; I don't think they are historically accurate at all, but I didn't want visible shin armour, so ignore them. I think the silver thistle brooch is considerably earlier than 10thC, maybe 8thC, but it's all I had at the time. Obviously the modern footwear is a concession to a muddle field in cork. The wool over-leine is well oiled by now, due to the mail (which recently had 10 inches of it's sleeves removed to be good for modern use). I'll add a bronze trim to the mail over the next while, to increase the wow factor.

Image

And without the cloak

Image
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Re: Posh irish kit - am I period or not .com ?

Postby Maid-MarionRose on Tue Jan 27, 2009 3:09 pm

Here with Myiagi and he figures you look dog rough!
:lol:
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Re: Posh irish kit - am I period or not .com ?

Postby Dave Mooney on Tue Jan 27, 2009 3:21 pm

They nuts I see on the inside of the shield?
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Re: Posh irish kit - am I period or not .com ?

Postby the_power on Tue Jan 27, 2009 4:04 pm

Yeah...they are coach bolts. But angle ground and beaten to look like rivets, I promise...

Marion....Myiagi ? Of course I'm dog rough. There is a reason that the easiest way to tell a viking house from an Irish house is whether there are any combs found or not...

John
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Re: Posh irish kit - am I period or not .com ?

Postby bannerman on Tue Jan 27, 2009 6:39 pm

To be honest I dont know enough about the period to comment with any authorithy. But kudos on the post I think this is the kind of thing we need more of on livinghistory.ie Getting our kit sorted and improving on accuracy and discussions on what is and is not period. I hope to start doing this soon for the 1913-1923 period as ive recieved lots of p.m.s and e-mails lately from Ireland and abroad asking me what is and is not accurate.

Ive always thought that a reenactor who has very dodgy kit but a good attitude and is willing to ask advice and learn from someone in the know is far more usefull than someone with perfectly researched kit who is arrogant about it (stitch counting etc!!!) and wont help any one else out or who causes trouble.

Again kudos
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Re: Posh irish kit - am I period or not .com ?

Postby frodo on Tue Jan 27, 2009 11:52 pm

It could be nicer with a side arm like a langseax or scain based on the finds from Dublin, you could look into a nice full steel helmet, some trimming on the over leine some inkle or tablet weaving maybe even some basic embroidery, You could also invest in an authentic shield... something I plan to do in the near future. I definitely like the three spears the brooch and the over all colour scheme looks very nice indeed. I was not aware that hooded leines ever existed but am willing to see some nice evidence. One thing that might really set it all off would be a nice wide crois with some good colours, and possibly a few extra pieces of jewelery to justify your wealth considering the fantastic suit of maille. Over all I really like the look and this sort of thing is definitely what we need more of on this site, good critical evaluation of kit before we all turn up at events, well done john.
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Re: Posh irish kit - am I period or not .com ?

Postby the_power on Wed Jan 28, 2009 8:13 am

80% of Irish spearmen also carried a sword, likely as a sidearm. It wasn't much longer than your average saex. I've..been making enquiries as to certain Irish smiths who make them...we'll see where that goes. I do have a somewhat-authentic shield (not suitable for fighting at flags though); see me in my low-status kit. I'm sure there were high-status shields too, just as the saxons and vikings jarls had rather different shields than their freemen. No idea what that might be thought.

Four years ago, I bought ten crios while visiting the Aran Islands. Every single one have them has gone walkies over the years. Sigh. I was supposed to take delivery of a new custom-made Bronze-Age one (no strong colours) in Cork, but...um...yeah. Must really get a new high-status one.

Any other ideas for Irish jewelery ? I assume 10thC is too late for a torc. I'm still torn on the helmet front. No one has found any steel helmets in Irish contexts yet, though leather helmets - and gold ones! - are mentioned in the stories. Maybe they exist, I don't know what they looked like.

As for hooded leine, check this PDF - http://earlyirish.org/EarlyGaelicDress12col.pdf - he has a few citations, and thinks it's more common than unhooded!

It also is sometimes described as having a culpait (cul-page), which can mean either a collar or a hood. Dunlevy
states, “It often had a culpait, or substantial collar, which later became a
hood,” �17). A hooded léine�as called a culpatach, or culpaideach
(cul-pay-jeek). We don’t kn�how this “collar” or “hoo�was �stru�d.

Dunlevy indicates a possible hood on the Virgin’s léine in the�ok � Kells
(p. 21). If this is indeed a hood under her veil, than it may be that the
hoods on early léinte were constru�ed as simple rectangles of fabric that
draped down from the neck as one might imagine on a Greek Doric chiton. There
is no indication that the culpait was a separate item like a cowl.
/quote]


Some more work to do...yay! That said, I think I'll put the bronze trim around the sleeves, neck & base first...

John
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Re: Posh irish kit - am I period or not .com ?

Postby frodo on Thu Jan 29, 2009 1:38 am

Having read Dunleavys book and re reading that (which by the way was a brilliant article well found... it has re spurred my interest to get my Irish kit up to date) I always took it that the hoods were for female garments only as only the women (Mary) in the BOK are depicted with their heads covered... I am planning on a good side arm for my irish kit next... the last one I made turned out to be mild steel not en45 as I first thought, so it was burr city after about half an hour.
Im also working on a crois myself but cant be bothered to spin the wool myself so it was be nasty 3 ply shop stuff, Ill post a few pics up here when I get the chance.
Jewelery wise, beads are always a good bet possibly amber or glass and potentially a pendant of some sort, if your character permits himself a bit of trade with those orrible lot around Dublin he could get a few bracelets as well.

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl= ... n%26sa%3DN

http://flickr.com/photos/unforth/268671 ... 287040933/

Keep us updated john!
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Re: Posh irish kit - am I period or not .com ?

Postby the_power on Thu Jan 29, 2009 7:59 am

That's great to hear Frodo! I'm really really interested in getting a load of people ready to portray a 10thC Irish raiding party. At the moment, myself and Dave have full low-status kit, Paul Branagan is working on similar kit...but that's it, I think. If anyone else is interested, give me a shout, and I'll help out with patterns, material choices and some spear-training. I'd really love to work as a pack - single handed spear needs a lot more room than sword & shield, so you really need to train in groups to get used to it. I had some problems in Bunratty last year, as people kept crowding me; if they'd trained beside someone with a single handed-spear, there would be less problems.

And yes; jet, viking-worked silver and amber have been found in Irish contexts. It's certain it was traded for slaves, wool, leather and wood (in that order).

John
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Re: Posh irish kit - am I period or not .com ?

Postby leoghan on Sun Feb 01, 2009 5:12 am

i have one question?
the length of the leine , is it as long as the wool one? and is that common length of irish solders ?
thank you.
and ya it looks great , good work :D
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