The Troubles in Northern Ireland

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The Troubles in Northern Ireland

Postby Ireland_ke on Thu Jan 22, 2009 2:35 pm

Hello, I come from Germany and in school, we are currently working on a project about Ireland. The topic of my group is "The Troubles" (the conflict between Englishmen and Irishmen). We are interested to find out about the relationship of the Englishmen ans Irishmen and we want to know, if there are still any troubles today and why. We prepared a questionnaire and we would be very grateful if you answer the questions! Answering the questionnaire make it easy for us to summarize the different opinions! In addition I will also ask the question in this thread for discussing. Because than we can find out about other views.
First this is the link for the questionnaire:

http://home.pages.at/questionnaire1/index.html

And this is the questions about you can discuss:

Are there any troubles between the Republic Ireland and England today?


If you think so you can discuss about the reason for the troubles
Some possible reason could be:
- because of England took the land of your forefathers.
- because of England tried to force your religion upon your forefathers.
- because of England took your mother tongue.
- or because of the ignorance of the English people during the famine (1845 – 1849).


I would be glad about an active discussion. :-)
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Re: The Troubles in Northern Ireland

Postby Dave Mooney on Thu Jan 22, 2009 3:30 pm

Hi Ireland_ke,
I understand you are from Germany and English is not you're first language but this is still a hot topic with many people. I think you need to do more homework before asking these type of questions. This is not so clear cut and there are plenty of people here who will explain in better than me.

There is no 'trouble' between the 'Republic of Ireland' and 'Great Britain' as they are both two recognised sovereign states. England being only part of Britain.

Once 'No' is ticked on your questionnaire none of the other questions can be answered so it can only get the opinion of someone that believes that there is. They also take too simple a view point.

The therm 'troubles' is a bad place to start from also as it is largely localised to 6 counties in Ulster that are under British rule and the conflict that ensued over them. It could take in paramilitary operations in Britain and the Republic also. People living in those counties that may wish to be rejoined with the Republic would say there is still problems but it is from their perspective and not the nations opinion. There are many factors why they would have/see they have problems apart from wanting to be re-joined to the rest of Ireland.

Yes, the issues in the North of Ireland are left over from the English/British occupations of Ireland. But a lot of the conflict has been enhanced by intolerance between different variations of Christianity, but this happened all over Europe at one point or other. The hatred between Protestant and Catholic was used to divide and suppress parts of the community in those Counties.

Not all Irish men were involved in this conflict.
This is a big subject and not very easy to explain or understand.

I think you may need to ask to have the story explained to you from a few people, or read a good book on it, before asking your questions. You also need to decide what period on this conflict is of real interest to your project as it does span up to 900 years depending who you talk to.

Dave.
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Re: The Troubles in Northern Ireland

Postby bannerman on Thu Jan 22, 2009 4:24 pm

Hello Karina,
I am very interested in the war between the Irish rebels and the British Government in 1920 - but I do not discuss the troubles in the North very much because they are far more contraversial. When I do discuss the troubles in the north - I dont do so here because this forum is about historical re-enactnt not modern politics.

however I want to make it very clear that the conflict between Ireland and Britain is not and has never been based on religion - although religion has been used to divide people here. most people think that all Catholics want Irish Independence and that all Protestants want to be part of Britain. This is far too simple (black and white) an idea.

The founding father of Irish freedom in 1790s Woulfe Tone was a Protestant and at the same time the Catholic church supported the British. In the 1920s there were Protestant republicans like Erskine Childers and Catholics who supported the British like Sir Dennis Henry. In the 1970s there were still some Protestants like Ronnie Bunting who fought for Ireland to be seperate to Britain and some Catholics fought for Britain.

As to our relationship with the English, any real republican should take their attitude from the Fenian Procolomation of 1867 "We make no war on the common people of England, our war is against the aristocratic locousts and tyrants who have stolen the verdue of our fields and theirs."

Dave is right, what you ask is a very difficult question. It is 800 years of history. It is like asking someone about the conflict in Israel Palestine - there are no simple or easy answers.

But I do want to help you so - read "The Celtic Revolution" by Peter Berresford Ellis. Published by Y Llofa Press. It has a chapter about 40 pages that gives the best short history of Ireland I have ever read - and wouldent you know its written by someone from Britain! :D

Otherwise try to find a website that deals with irish politics not Irish history!
Good luck. I hope you get the answers you need.

Padraig
Last edited by bannerman on Fri Jan 23, 2009 3:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Troubles in Northern Ireland

Postby Dave Mooney on Thu Jan 22, 2009 6:57 pm

I got thinking on the drive home and Padraig has said it. This is a political discussion and would be better taken to someone that deals in politics.
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