Early Irish Buttons

Viking, Saxon, and Early Christian Irish cultures

Moderator: the_power

Early Irish Buttons

Postby Neil on Tue Sep 02, 2008 6:19 pm

Starting on my very basic early Irish kit and just wanted to know, was there such as thing as buttons? If so what kind etc??
Neil
South Dublin Living History Society
User avatar
Neil
Full Name: Neil Byrne
 
Posts: 47
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2006 12:00 am
Location: South Dublin
Karma: 0

Re: Early Irish Buttons

Postby Billy on Tue Sep 02, 2008 11:45 pm

Not sure if there was, but to me, the balance of evidence suggests they were introduced by the Norse, since our word for buttons in irish is Cnaipe, which comes from Old Norse [Knappr, or something like that].

Toggles may have been in vogue before then, which are pieces of wood or antler with two perforations, like the buttons of a duffel coat.

Iron age cloaks in western Europe show the use of leather toggles, which are formed by cutting strips, and rolling them up upon themselves to make cylinders, and small leather tabs were left, to attach them on.

Buttons as we know them can be found in Bronze Age, or actually copper age, Ireland, and are made of jet, and shaped like cones. They have V perforations in them, where the button holes meet inside the button, and don't actually pierce the front. They seem to be absent from the Archaeological period, until they reappear in Viking contexts.

I could be dead wrong about this, I'm simply saying that, from memory, I don't recall buttons in iron Age or early medieval contexts.

le meas,
Billy.
Billy MagFhloinn
User avatar
Billy
Active Newbie
Real Name: None Set
 
Posts: 247
Joined: Thu Oct 16, 2003 11:00 pm
Location: Limerick
Karma: 32

Re: Early Irish Buttons

Postby Neil on Wed Sep 03, 2008 3:16 pm

Thanks Billy,
I've got lots of bits of leather lying around so reckon I can make a few toggles to do the job :)
Neil
South Dublin Living History Society
User avatar
Neil
Full Name: Neil Byrne
 
Posts: 47
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2006 12:00 am
Location: South Dublin
Karma: 0

Re: Early Irish Buttons

Postby the_power on Wed Sep 03, 2008 4:52 pm

It's worth mentioning - for jackets/clocks, its likely that pins were used to fasten them, rather than leather toggles.

Billy, have you seen toggles on anything other than leather items ? I've used them on viking shoes, and leather pouches, but I'd be nervous about adding them to a wool jacket or similar.

John
User avatar
the_power
Active Newbie
Full Name: John Looney
 
Posts: 508
Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2003 11:00 pm
Location: Dublin 13, Ireland
Karma: 17

Re: Early Irish Buttons

Postby Neil on Wed Sep 03, 2008 5:38 pm

Well in that case what kind of pins would you recommend??? Or in other words what modern pins would I be able to pass off as authentic and not have to worry about being stabbed by as well when fighting? :lol:
Neil
South Dublin Living History Society
User avatar
Neil
Full Name: Neil Byrne
 
Posts: 47
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2006 12:00 am
Location: South Dublin
Karma: 0

Re: Early Irish Buttons

Postby the_power on Thu Sep 04, 2008 3:57 pm

Uh...not modern pins. Bone pins, maybe copper, brass or iron pins. At the simple end, you often see a metal pin, with a simple ring on one end, the point on the other. The ring was then tied to the garment in case you'd lose it.

John
User avatar
the_power
Active Newbie
Full Name: John Looney
 
Posts: 508
Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2003 11:00 pm
Location: Dublin 13, Ireland
Karma: 17

Re: Early Irish Buttons

Postby Guthrum on Fri Jan 16, 2009 4:35 pm

the_power wrote:Uh...not modern pins. Bone pins, maybe copper, brass or iron pins. At the simple end, you often see a metal pin, with a simple ring on one end, the point on the other. The ring was then tied to the garment in case you'd lose it.

John


Bone pins probably the most common. Dead easy to make. You don't need complex rings, since a hole at the head end, and a leather thong, are all you need for a very secure fastening [copes with a Force 7 in the North Sea!].
Guthrum
Full Name: Andy Nicholson
 
Posts: 24
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2009 8:54 am
Location: Galloway, Scotland
Karma: 0

Re: Early Irish Buttons

Postby claimhteoir on Wed Feb 11, 2009 12:17 am

My Irish arms 16thC Ionar has a lovely antler toggle! :D
User avatar
claimhteoir
Active Newbie
Full Name: None Set
 
Posts: 85
Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2008 8:27 pm
Karma: 6


Return to Early-Medieval

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests

cron