Hans Tolhoffer, "Alte Armatur und Ringkust", 1459

Irish and European fighting styles and techniques, and the required Arms & Armour

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Hans Tolhoffer, "Alte Armatur und Ringkust", 1459

Postby finnobreanan on Wed Jan 26, 2011 4:47 am

I did a search and found no discussion on Tolhoffer's manuscript, so I thought I'd post this.
US 'History Channel' had a great program dealing with experimental archeology using Hans Tolhoffer's manuscript, "Alte Armatur und Ringkust", published in 1459. I'd never heard of it before, but it is really fantastic. It has great illustrations for combat for the time period and some very original ideas I'd never heard of before. I found an on-line link to the original manuscript:
http://www.aemma.org/onlineResources/ta ... s_body.htm

Enjoy! :D
Finn O'Breanan
Wood Kerne

"...The O'Brennans, a sept of thieves without any right or title, ... were a perpetual disturbance to the peace of the county,"
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Re: Hans Tolhoffer, "Alte Armatur und Ringkust", 1459

Postby Cathal on Wed Jan 26, 2011 6:45 am

There's a highly authentic combat group in Vienna called "Dreynschlag". If you are interested in Talhofer, Liechtensteiner, I.33 and so on they are propably the best to ask for further information.
On their homepage you'll find loads of photos, see http://www.dreynschlag.at/historisches.php - here's a listing of weapons on the left side.
The Dreynschlag's are working international, so it shouldn't be any problem to contact them in english.
...try always to be on the right end of the sword...
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Re: Hans Tolhoffer, "Alte Armatur und Ringkust", 1459

Postby nathan on Wed Jan 26, 2011 8:06 pm

i have read through talhoffers work and have a few copies of his books very interesting stuff i found the documentary lacked enough of the actual martial content of his books but yes interesting man.
for here starts war carrion birds sing, and grey wolves howl
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Re: Hans Tolhoffer, "Alte Armatur und Ringkust", 1459

Postby brendan on Thu Jan 27, 2011 1:42 pm

There are a lot of manuals and other stuff on here:
http://www.fioredeiliberi.org/phpBB3/

Scroll to bottom of page
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Re: Hans Tolhoffer, "Alte Armatur und Ringkust", 1459

Postby PaulBennett on Tue Mar 08, 2011 1:42 am

For people starting out in hema, talhoffer is not the best to study. All his manuscripts are deliberately vague and under-detailed for a variety of reasons. Some contain deliberate errors, making them very hard to decipher.

The german tradition has several decent works more suited to the beginner. Lecuchners messer treatise, for one; Meyers multiple weapon treatise for another
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Re: Hans Tolhoffer, "Alte Armatur und Ringkust", 1459

Postby Christopher on Thu Apr 07, 2011 10:14 am

I can really recommend not looking too hard at Talhoffer until you've had a chance to look at the works of Johannes Liechtenauer and Sigmund Ringeck.

The best interpretations of those are by Christian Tobler; "Fighting with the German Longsword" and "Secrets of Medieval German Swordsmanship". The thing with Talhoffer is that his book is not as much a manual but more a grab bag of tricks and plays that an already accomplished swordsman could throw into his fight. Thats why the "plays" on the plates seem to happen in isolation to the other plates and don't seem connected; i think Talhoffer assumed that you would know what went before and how you ended up in that stance, etc. I found that only after going through a fair bit of Liechtenauer and other german longsword stuff did Talhoffer begin to make sense. Even then though, the actual utility and practicality of some of the stuff Talhoffer shows is still a bit suspect (that's just my opinion anyway).
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Re: Hans Tolhoffer, "Alte Armatur und Ringkust", 1459

Postby manfredsorg on Tue Aug 21, 2012 7:54 am

I've been learning Langschwert fencing some years ago at http://www.krifon.de/.
He is teaching a Ringeck style - but you can ask me about details if you like.
To me Langschwert is as easy to learn and as useful as asiatic sword fencing ;)
It is a beautiful style but only for single combat with a traineed opponent - not to use in battles.
Gillean mac Cormaic / Manfred Sorg - Scottish living history around 1200 in Germany - schottenhof.de
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