Being Celtic, or not

Moderator: the_power

Being Celtic, or not

Postby rainsfordryan on Fri Nov 06, 2009 12:32 am

There is always plenty of debate on this site, nationaly and internationly on the celts, (whoever they were/ are,) and there probably will be for a long time to come. The celts, the Irish, etc, their origins, and our understanding of it all, have and will continue to change over time. Their desendants(if any) and/or a large number of people today, claim to be Celtic. The word today and for some time now, has taken on a meaning, very probably hugely flawed but one which will probably stand for a long time to come, regardless of new discoveries.

I consider and claim myself to be a celt/ pure blooded wild Irish type, desended from some mad naked warrior, who took on the Romans and lived to tell the tale, whos desendants faught and rebelled againts the Vikings, Normans and English. But I reckon in truth, that I'm probably desendant from all of the above as well as many poor law abiding peasants and that thats why I'm here today. But you can't help feeling good, claiming to be a Celt.

What does the word Celt/Celtic mean to you? Go on be honest! ;)
User avatar
rainsfordryan
Full Name: Fergal Ryan
 
Posts: 34
Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2009 10:45 pm
Location: Ballinasloe
Karma: 0

Re: Being Celtic, or not

Postby Nerva on Fri Nov 06, 2009 9:20 am

Salve Fergal!

When I think of Celt I think of you ya mad bastard :lol: Pajo would have to be in there too although he's not a "Ginge" but he is a mad bastard too. I'm afraid I've read too much Tacitus and Caesar, I think of the Celts as big hairy smelly dog loving cow pat kicking buggers :lol:
Vale

Marcvs Vlpius Nerva

Legion Ireland - Roman Military Society of Ireland
Pilus Prior Cohors VIII Legionis XX Valeria Victrix

http://www.romanarmy.ie

info@romanarmy.ie

nerva@romanarmy.ie
User avatar
Nerva
Active Newbie
Full Name: Martin McAree
 
Posts: 888
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2007 12:00 am
Location: Corcagia, Hibernia Pronvincia - Cork, Ireland, to you Barbarians!
Karma: 62

Re: Being Celtic, or not

Postby bannerman on Sat Nov 07, 2009 10:53 am

As you said Fergal theres alwaysplenty of debate on this site, nationaly and internationly on the celts, the problem is its a very emotive subject and the meaning, interpretation and adoptation of the name by different groups has changed alot over time. Personally I like to takle it from a linguistic point looking at insular / Celtic / indo-european languages in Britain and Ireland. Irish, Scots Gaelic, Manx, Welsh and Cornish. Id recomend you read work on the subject by Colin Renfries.

Martin we all know you have read way
too much Tacitus and Caesar,
and
think of the Celts as big hairy smelly dog loving cow pat kicking buggers
but that doesent give us a very balanced picture does it? It wouldent be very fair of me If I spent all my time reading IRA veterans accounts of the war of independence and never sought out and read the available British accounts or vice-versa.

On that note Id recommend Terry Jones' Barbarians: An Alternative Roman History by BBC Books.

Heres a review from Publishers Weekly
In the Monty Python film Life of Brian, a member of the People's Front of Judea asks, "What have the Romans ever done for us?" (apart from, of course, the "sanitation, medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, the fresh water system and public health"). The director of that movie—and now popular historian—Jones (Who Murdered Chaucer?), along with Ereira (The People's England), now answer the question: a bit, but nowhere near as much as the barbarians did. Jones attempts to overturn the popular conception of the glorious Roman Empire, which he says is mostly propaganda, and claims that the barbarians—a general term describing the tribes of western and northern Europe, as well as of the Middle East—have for too long been slandered as "savages" by the allegedly more advanced and civilized Romans and their descendants. In fact, these assorted Celts, Vandals, Persians and Goths were technologically, economically and intellectually sophisticated, but were on the wrong side of history. While scholars will sniff at Jones's offhand humor, somewhat wide-eyed "revelations"—which have been revealed before—and tendency to believe the vastly exaggerated death tolls of the time (he relies on Plutarch's figure that Julius Caesar slaughtered a million Gauls, a virtually impossible feat), readers will go along for a most enjoyable ride and appreciate his fascinating tale of the barbarians' lost world. 24 pages of color photos, maps.

You can buy it here at http://www.amazon.com or Easons are currently stocking it as well.

Perhaps members of th Roman Group would like to review it for the site. :shock: :?:

Padraig
http://www.warofindependence.net/

"Is doigh linn gur mor iad na daoine mora mar atamuid fein ar ar nglunaibh. - Eirimis!!!"
Jim Larkin 1913
User avatar
bannerman
Active Newbie
Full Name: Padraig O Ruairc
 
Posts: 248
Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2008 12:00 am
Location: Clare - An Clar
Karma: 16

Re: Being Celtic, or not

Postby Nerva on Sat Nov 07, 2009 9:36 pm

Salve Padraig!

bannerman wrote:but that doesent give us a very balanced picture does it? It wouldent be very fair of me If I spent all my time reading IRA veterans accounts of the war of independence and never sought out and read the available British accounts or vice-versa.


The problem is Padraig that there are no contemporise "Celtic" accounts, and you know me, I have to tow the party line :lol:

bannerman wrote:On that note I'd recommend Terry Jones' Barbarians: An Alternative Roman History by BBC Books.


Ohh, couldn't agree with you there Padraig. I bought the book and the DVDs of the television series. I found both to be very disappointing. So many mis-quotes and inaccuracies, I lost all faith in the book. Very sloppy research. For example, you quote Plutarch, he never mentions a million murdered by Caesar. He estimates a quarter of the population of Gaul died during the Gallic Wars. The one million is a modern construct based on an estimated Gallic population of 4 million at the time. This is not such a fantastic estimate by the way. There was huge famine during and after the Vercingetorix revolt. Here the Gauls perused a policy of "Scorched Earth" with devastating affects on the population.

That said Jones brings nothing new to the argument. By the middle of the second century the idea of the ignorant barbarian had largely been dispelled, in fact it was Caesar himself who first introduced so called Gallic barbarians to the Senate and Claudius who cemented their position. The attritibutes of the conquered peoples were well appreciated by Rome. Of course no one could possibly defend the actions of some Romans, or indeed call the conquest acts of liberation. The Roman machine was brutal and efficient and focused entirely on being of benefit to Rome. You know the old adage though, the victor writes the history ;)

To tell you the truth, when I hear the word "Celt" I have to cringe. To me it conjures up the idea of an absurd pan European idea of a single people all unified by a common social structure - What we were taught in school and the concept that many people still expound to this day. In particular the idea of a Celtic Ireland is totally absurd, there's more evidence to support a Roman invasion of Ireland than a Celtic one...Ah, off on one of my rants again... :D :D :D

Vale

Nerva
Vale

Marcvs Vlpius Nerva

Legion Ireland - Roman Military Society of Ireland
Pilus Prior Cohors VIII Legionis XX Valeria Victrix

http://www.romanarmy.ie

info@romanarmy.ie

nerva@romanarmy.ie
User avatar
Nerva
Active Newbie
Full Name: Martin McAree
 
Posts: 888
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2007 12:00 am
Location: Corcagia, Hibernia Pronvincia - Cork, Ireland, to you Barbarians!
Karma: 62

Re: Being Celtic, or not

Postby Billy on Sun Nov 08, 2009 5:42 pm

there's more evidence to support a Roman invasion of Ireland than a Celtic on


Never!
Billy MagFhloinn
User avatar
Billy
Active Newbie
Real Name: None Set
 
Posts: 247
Joined: Thu Oct 16, 2003 11:00 pm
Location: Limerick
Karma: 32

Re: Being Celtic, or not

Postby Irish-American on Sun Nov 08, 2009 6:21 pm

The Celts were the original inhabitants of Ireland untarnished by Viking or English influence. Once the societies collided the Irish were no longer Celtic because new blood was in their veins. I believe we have a small contention to them, but cannot call ourselves that. The Celtics are also a decent basketball team I might add, even if Americans to to pronounce it wrong. :D
Irish-American
Active Newbie
Full Name: I'd rather not say
 
Posts: 132
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2009 3:52 am
Karma: 5

Re: Being Celtic, or not

Postby rainsfordryan on Sun Nov 08, 2009 9:57 pm

Thanks for the replys lads, more feelings, less quotes and referances though( thought it was turning into one of the other topics there for a sec, but thanks to all, for all.)
Fergal.

P.s. had to use all my strength at crag. to stand still and watch the marching Romans pass by on a quiet woodland path, while my insides were screaming, charge , attack......... :twisted: :shock: :D .......thank god for breathing exercises!
User avatar
rainsfordryan
Full Name: Fergal Ryan
 
Posts: 34
Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2009 10:45 pm
Location: Ballinasloe
Karma: 0

Re: Being Celtic, or not

Postby Nerva on Sun Nov 08, 2009 10:51 pm

rainsfordryan wrote:P.s. had to use all my strength at crag. to stand still and watch the marching Romans pass by on a quiet woodland path, while my insides were screaming, charge , attack......... :twisted: :shock: :D .......thank god for breathing exercises!


So that's what the smell was :lol: Seriously though Fergal, Crag was a fantastic event, thanks for having us along, much appreciated ;)
Vale

Marcvs Vlpius Nerva

Legion Ireland - Roman Military Society of Ireland
Pilus Prior Cohors VIII Legionis XX Valeria Victrix

http://www.romanarmy.ie

info@romanarmy.ie

nerva@romanarmy.ie
User avatar
Nerva
Active Newbie
Full Name: Martin McAree
 
Posts: 888
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2007 12:00 am
Location: Corcagia, Hibernia Pronvincia - Cork, Ireland, to you Barbarians!
Karma: 62

Re: Being Celtic, or not

Postby rainsfordryan on Mon Nov 09, 2009 11:40 pm

Nerva wrote:
So that's what the smell was :lol: Seriously though Fergal, Crag was a fantastic event, thanks for having us along, much appreciated ;)


Wow, sombody should have told me i was running the show and i would have made more of an efford. Last time i checked i was just a reenactor wana be, there for a look with my mad kids and yes believe it or not, smelly dog.
Image044.jpg
Image044.jpg (46.22 KiB) Viewed 2466 times


Nerva wrote:
When I think of Celt I think of you ........ although he's not a "Ginge"


I hope there not some gingy fecker pretending to be me........or vice versa?! :? 8-)

Damn, my covers blown, i'm out of here before moghroith get me, but thanks for coming to my event! :D :lol:
User avatar
rainsfordryan
Full Name: Fergal Ryan
 
Posts: 34
Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2009 10:45 pm
Location: Ballinasloe
Karma: 0

Re: Being Celtic, or not

Postby finnobreanan on Tue Nov 10, 2009 3:09 pm

When I think of the word "Celt" I thing of a culture and the Gelic language, not a race of people.
Finn O'Breanan
Wood Kerne

"...The O'Brennans, a sept of thieves without any right or title, ... were a perpetual disturbance to the peace of the county,"
User avatar
finnobreanan
Active Newbie
Full Name: Scott Cross
 
Posts: 439
Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2007 12:00 am
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Karma: 14

Next

Return to General Chat

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

cron