Medieval irish helmets

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Re: Medieval irish helmets

Postby russkiy_volchara on Thu Sep 25, 2008 11:03 am

Swifty wrote:This is a Late Medieval Bascinet which was yielded from the old bed of the River Nore from Clashnamuck in Co Laois very close to Borris-In-Ossory.

Swifty, do you know more sharp date of this helmet, than "Late Medieval"? 13, 14 or 15 century? And it's very interesting, does exist some science reconstruction of common shape of this helmet? Thanks in advance.

By the way, this is some pics of second Irish helmet "Helmet from Low Henney", about 1400.
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otherview_henneyhelmetprof1_detail300hweb[1].jpg
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main_henneyhelmet300hweb[1].jpg
main_henneyhelmet300hweb[1].jpg (17.86 KiB) Viewed 15260 times
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Irish1380[1].jpg (43.17 KiB) Viewed 15267 times
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Re: Medieval irish helmets

Postby Swifty on Thu Sep 25, 2008 11:23 am

russkiy_volchara wrote:
Swifty wrote:This is a Late Medieval Bascinet which was yielded from the old bed of the River Nore from Clashnamuck in Co Laois very close to Borris-In-Ossory.

Swifty, do you know more sharp date of this helmet, than "Late Medieval"? 13, 14 or 15 century? And it's very interesting, does exist some science reconstruction of common shape of this helmet? Thanks in advance.

By the way, this is some pics of second Irish helmet "Helmet from Low Henney", about 1400.

Thank you for posting the pictures of the Lough Henney helmet. Those are great photos of it - where did you get them - did you take them yourself? This helmet was on display some years ago in the Ulster Museum for their temporary 'Conflict' exhibition which was where I first saw/heard of it. I had a piece on it which Cormac Bourke had written in the Lecale Miscellany but unfortunately I just havn't been able to locate it - too many house moves of late!! It is such an unusual piece - with such character, I can't help but believe that the embellishments hark from an earlier (more conservative) era of artisanship, and moreover a Scandinavian - and therefore in the Irish Medieval context a possible Islesman/galloglass - influence would be my guess, rather than an Anglo-Norman one.

The bascinet helmet from Co Laois was yielded from the river-bed of the Nore and so therefore is without archaeological stratification/historical provenance. It can therefore be only dated via typological means - which would most likely place it in the fourteenth century, but in the Irish context it could possibly just as likely be assigned a fifteenth century date. It also appears to conform to helmets depicted on several 14th/15thC funery reliefs - both Anglo-Norman and Gaelic Irish in Ireland. This latter is just my opinion - sorry I can't be any more precise than that! Last time I looked the bascinet was still on display in the National Museum of Ireland's medieval section on Kildare St in Dublin.
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Re: Medieval irish helmets

Postby russkiy_volchara on Thu Sep 25, 2008 1:48 pm

Thanks a lot for you reply.
About Lough Henney's photos - unfortunally, I have never been in Ireland yet, so it's not my shots =) Colour pics I got from Ulster Museum's site - earlier there were some photos of artefacts from exbition " Conflict: the Irish at war", but now - just this http://www.ulstermuseum.org.uk/the-coll ... -medieval/
Black and white photo I found on our Russian Reenactment's forum http://www.tforum.info/forum/index.php?
And one more photo of LH helmet :
PS. My apologies for my bad English.
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Re: Medieval irish helmets

Postby kevin714 on Fri Mar 06, 2009 5:59 am

I found this picture on a scottish clan website but he looks awful irish to me. And I know this print is from the victorian era but it must have been based on some facts maybe more than we have today. The link between gaelic Ireland and Scotland is well established and note the round iron helmet. It seems logical to me that this would have been worn in Ireland and maybe even originated there and ties into the account of the spanish visitor who documented that the Irish wore round iron helmets in 1396.
Does anyone have more information about this depiction or the clan in relation to Ireland or period of history it depicts?
There are more pictures of other clans which look very irish and some with metal helmets.
No offense but he does look alot cooler than some of the depictions I have seen here 8-)
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Re: Medieval irish helmets

Postby finnobreanan on Fri Mar 06, 2009 6:56 pm

The print is part of a series of incredibly inaccurate images done in the 19th century. Most of the prints are pure flights of fancy. This particular print shows the warrior/kern wearing a red long underwear shirt; a white shirt with houplande sleeves (note, this is not a leine!); and a tan/mustard KILT (yes, that is a kilt he's wearing)! It is VERY loosely based on Hollinshed's Chronicle 1577, where he illustrates the clothing of Highlanders, basicly the same garb as Irish kerns from the same time period. The helmet/flower pot on his head is based on who knows what. The whole series of prints in question were supposed to document the various "Ancient" Scottish Clan Tartans, which were also invented in much later history.
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Re: Medieval irish helmets

Postby Swifty on Fri Mar 06, 2009 7:31 pm

I was trying to think of where to start with this one when Finn stepped in and took the words right out of my mouth : ) Too right - gaudy victorian propaganda.
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Re: Medieval irish helmets

Postby Maghnus Ó Sionnaigh on Sat Mar 07, 2009 3:39 am

Well, I'm sort of stuck guys. I find myself in a situation where I need a helmet to fight, but nothing most people offer is accurate for Irish portrayal, if such a concept can even be applied. So, is there even a type of helm I could "plausibly" get away with, without an overtly blatant tarnish to an Irish persona. (Read: What kind of helm should I have... in 1290?)
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Re: Medieval irish helmets

Postby Swifty on Sat Mar 07, 2009 3:29 pm

Imported plain conical helmet w/nasal or without.
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Re: Medieval irish helmets

Postby kevin714 on Sat Mar 07, 2009 10:51 pm

Well I figured that would be the deal. And your right the branch is kinda goofy but I can easily envision a horse tail plume similiar to the ones in the McBride drawings or Derricke prints. The Fergusan clan does claim descent from Ireland though so I thought there may have been a link. Oh well so much for that angle.
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Re: Medieval irish helmets

Postby Maghnus Ó Sionnaigh on Sun Mar 08, 2009 4:01 pm

Imported? I think of such extravagant styles as Italo-Norman and Rus style conical. Can you elaborate on what you mean by imported?
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