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Leine

PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2009 9:18 pm
by finnobreanan
I've been meaning to re-post this link on the history of the Leine for some time, since the link was lost when the new site came up. Since then, Mathew Newsome has published a book, with complete instructions for making a leine.

http://albanach.org/leine.html

It is a good article, but I don't agree with a few minor points.

Re: Leine

PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2009 1:45 pm
by Fahey
very interesting ,
i just dont really see the wrap around leine in the derricke ones , it looks more like the close fitting jacket.
i also wonder what is the first appearance / writing of the wider sleeve,s?
do you think they gradually got wider or was it ,one day narrow the next everyone was makeing wide ones?
and is there any mention anywere of it in other colors?
i found this today
http://www.the-irish-path.com/tradition ... thing.html
ive never read that befor about the irish king and richard II ,im not sure the drawing is correct , but its a shame sleeve size is not mentioned .
maybe some knows what record they got it from.

Re: Leine

PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2009 2:57 pm
by finnobreanan
I would agree that Derricke's images are questionable, especially the wrap-around leine. This was the point I disagreed with in Mathew Newsome's article. The image of the "Messenger is probably the best of the lot. The Houpelande sleeve is actually a much older clothing style, that seems to have survived much longer in Ireland. The only descritions of colours that I have read is sffron or yellow.

Re: Leine

PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 1:03 am
by Fionnuala
I know I'm posting to an old thread, but i'm playing catch up, being new to this forum. I've done a little research on leine, though. (I've made two this year... sort of.)

As for the sleeves, I know that fabric was used practically and economically in early period, hence the narrower sleeves. Later period (1400s - 1600s?), however, wealth was displayed by the amount of fabric draped all over you. Apparently you were much cooler if you had so much wealth that you could waste fabric in that way. Hence the wider sleeves. Also, if you had so much fabric to be impractical to function, it meant you didn't have to work.

Other colors? Oh yes. Brighter colors were preferred, but I know that some colors were only reserved for the head honchos. I can't remember for sure, but I believe red was a reserved color and maybe purple.

Wrap around leine? Hadn't heard of that in my research. Then again, I'm not a research pro or anything. I think your assumption of it being the Eoinar (or however it's spelled) is correct. The jacket-type garment is documented.

:-)
~ fionnuala

Re: Leine

PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 9:13 am
by the_power
Fionnuala wrote:Other colors? Oh yes. Brighter colors were preferred, but I know that some colors were only reserved for the head honchos. I can't remember for sure, but I believe red was a reserved color and maybe purple.


"Early Irish Farming" has some good hints on colours; red is pretty common in some parts of Ireland (though I strongly doubt that it was the intense reds we are now used to), and blue was also pretty common. I'm not aware of specific prescriptions against purple - red overdyed with blue would be fine - but in the earlier periods (pre 11thC, perhaps) the numbers of different colours on your person was prescribed (3 for soldiers, 4 for heroes, 6 for kings, 7 for over-kinds and bishops). Though slaves were not expected to be dressed in anything other than undyed cloth, you could dye with anything you could find locally. By the times the vikings were bringing in cloth (9thC onward) pretty much any colour & cloth was available for sale.

Wrap around leine? Hadn't heard of that in my research. Then again, I'm not a research pro or anything. I think your assumption of it being the Eoinar (or however it's spelled) is correct.


There is a reconstruction of a wrap-around leine in the Collins Barrack's museum. It's quite odd; it looks like a yellow woolen kimono. Skeptical cat is skeptical. I think that's what the guys were talking about. It's certainly not a doublet, like the ionar Does anyone have a photo of it ?

John

Re: Leine

PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 10:34 pm
by Fionnuala
Ah, that's right. I remember reading now about the number of colors allowed. Thank you. I would review my research if I could find it. My laptop seems to have dined on some of my files in the past couple weeks. :roll:

I would also be interested in a photo of the ionar, if it's found.

thanks!

Re: Leine

PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 5:20 am
by finnobreanan
Fionnuala!

You live in Michigan I see, I live in Wisconsin...only a very large body of inland water between us! If you are making more 16th century Leine's, I would be happy to help:
viewtopic.php?f=17&t=142

Send me a PM and I will be happy to reply. Good to see someone else as interested here in the States as I am.

Re: Leine

PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2009 12:58 pm
by Fahey
hello, i came across this the otherday and have been goin nuts trying to fund out were and when this little figurine was made. it looks alot like the liene.
any help, please
http://www.nuigalway.ie/archaeology/Res ... world.html

Re: Leine

PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2009 10:30 pm
by the_power
I'm just putting this out there as a mad idea...but maybe ask the guy whose contact details are on the webpage ?

John

Re: Leine

PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 1:39 pm
by finnobreanan
Conri wrote:hello, i came across this the otherday and have been goin nuts trying to fund out were and when this little figurine was made. it looks alot like the liene.
any help, please
http://www.nuigalway.ie/archaeology/Res ... world.html

Interesting artifact. From the project description, it seems to imply that this is a Roman artifact from an Irish hoard, but there is no artifact description or information. It certainly looks like a leine to me, more so than a roman toga.