Irish Warrior

Viking, Saxon, and Early Christian Irish cultures

Moderator: the_power

Irish Warrior

Postby templarcommander on Sun Mar 03, 2013 8:19 am

Hi everybody,

looking for help. What would an Irish Warrior have looked like at the time of The Norman Invasion?
What weapons were used etc...
Any images would be greatly appreciated.

One last question, I am looking for a Large Viking Battle Axe, can ye suggest any suppliers?

Thank you.
Kindest Regards,
Non nobis, Domine, non nobis, sed nomini Tuo da gloriam..
Cornelius
User avatar
templarcommander
Active Newbie
Real Name: None Set
 
Posts: 65
Joined: Wed Mar 29, 2006 11:00 pm
Karma: 12

Re: Irish Warrior

Postby Stephen Curtin on Sun Mar 03, 2013 1:08 pm

Well the only account we have of the Norman invasion (that I'm aware of anyway) is that of Geraldus Cambrensis. He goes into some detail about the clothing and weapons used by the Irish. He says that their clothes are mostly made from black wool, and consist of a hood, a cloak, a tunic, and a pair of trews. He says that the Irish use three kinds of weapon, short spears, two darts and well tempered iron axes, which they use in one hand.He later goes on to say that the Irish also were good slingers.
Stephen Curtin
Active Newbie
Full Name: Stephen Curtin
 
Posts: 74
Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2008 10:59 pm
Karma: 0

Re: Irish Warrior

Postby templarcommander on Sun Mar 03, 2013 4:21 pm

Thank you Stephen.
Kindest Regards,
Non nobis, Domine, non nobis, sed nomini Tuo da gloriam..
Cornelius
User avatar
templarcommander
Active Newbie
Real Name: None Set
 
Posts: 65
Joined: Wed Mar 29, 2006 11:00 pm
Karma: 12

Re: Irish Warrior

Postby finnobreanan on Mon Mar 04, 2013 2:40 pm

As Stephen mentioned, Gerald of Wales' book, "Expugnatio Hibernica" or "Conquest of Ireland", it also has illustrations of Irishmen. It shows them wearing tunics, trews, shoes, and a cloak or Brat.
Finn O'Breanan
Wood Kerne

"...The O'Brennans, a sept of thieves without any right or title, ... were a perpetual disturbance to the peace of the county,"
User avatar
finnobreanan
Active Newbie
Full Name: Scott Cross
 
Posts: 439
Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2007 12:00 am
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Karma: 14

Re: Irish Warrior

Postby brendan on Fri Mar 08, 2013 1:04 am

There is a picture in Mairead Dunleavy's book of a bunch of lads charging down a hill - I think that is a little later. Its a good source/reference for that era. You might be able to get it in a library but I think its out of print.
User avatar
brendan
Active Newbie
Full Name: Brendan Griffin
 
Posts: 711
Joined: Sun Nov 16, 2003 12:00 am
Location: Nomadic
Karma: 66

Re: Irish Warrior

Postby Stephen Curtin on Fri Mar 08, 2013 9:27 am

Dunleavy is a great source of info Brendan, but you were right about the image you speak being too late, in fact I think its from 1399. There are images that go with Geraldus' work, but McClintock reckons that these were additions made someone who had not been to Ireland, and was using the description in the text to base his images on.
Stephen Curtin
Active Newbie
Full Name: Stephen Curtin
 
Posts: 74
Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2008 10:59 pm
Karma: 0

Re: Irish Warrior

Postby finnobreanan on Fri Mar 08, 2013 2:33 pm

Mairead Dunleavy's book is available through Amazon, but they are not cheap. You can get a new copy for $100.00 US. Some used ones are out there also.
http://www.amazon.com/Dress-Ireland-Mai ... in+ireland
Finn O'Breanan
Wood Kerne

"...The O'Brennans, a sept of thieves without any right or title, ... were a perpetual disturbance to the peace of the county,"
User avatar
finnobreanan
Active Newbie
Full Name: Scott Cross
 
Posts: 439
Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2007 12:00 am
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Karma: 14

Re: Irish Warrior

Postby templarcommander on Sat Mar 09, 2013 8:58 am

Thanks for the help lads, i appreciate it.
Kindest Regards,
Non nobis, Domine, non nobis, sed nomini Tuo da gloriam..
Cornelius
User avatar
templarcommander
Active Newbie
Real Name: None Set
 
Posts: 65
Joined: Wed Mar 29, 2006 11:00 pm
Karma: 12

Re: Irish Warrior

Postby kevin714 on Sat Mar 09, 2013 11:55 pm

I do not think Gerald of Wales should be the final say in what the Irish looked like at that time considering his acknowledged agenda and prejudice in the matter. I do not disagree with the descriptions given but I think there is more to it. I realize there is very little to go on but continued research may change things a bit. I like this paper as a counter to Gerald although it is not big on details. Its too big to upload the whole thing but here is the Abstract;

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
"Armour and Conquest:
A study of body armour worn by the Anglo-Normans and the Gaelic Irish at the time of the Conquest of Ireland

An essay for the 2012 Undergraduate Awards Competition by Caoimhe Ní Dhónaill. Originally submitted for TSM History and English Lit at Trinity College Dublin, with lecturer Professor Terry Barry in the category of Historical Studies & Archaeology
 ABSTRACT: In his history of the conquest of Ireland by the Anglo-Normans,Gerald of Wales contended that the Irish were technologically inferior to the Anglo-Normans as they wore no armour. Gerald’s conclusion has been perpetuated by later historians, notably Edmund Curtis, often with an anti-Irish bias. In this essay, I critically examine this accusation of technological inferiority. The essay can be divided in two: (1) I attempted to assess the kind of armour worn by both the Irish and the Anglo-Normans during the conquest by looking at sources such as stone effigies, literary and historical textual descriptions, pictorial depictions in theMaciejowski Bible and artefacts from the archaeological record and (2) I compared the effectiveness of these types of armour in an Irish context. The conclusion reached in this essay is that the Irish were aware of chainmail armour, which was worn by many of the Anglo-Norman knights, and were able to produce it or acquire it through trade. However, it is likely that the majority of the Irish did not wear chainmail armour and instead they wore other types of body armour, such as leather or padded armour. Furthermore, this choice of lighter armour was more suited to the wooded and mountainous Irish landscape. The guerrilla tactics of the native Irish emphasised agility over strength, which proved relatively effective against the heavy cavalry of the Anglo-Normans. These findings suggest that the ‘technological superiority’ of the Anglo-Normans was non-existent or, at least, ineffective in an Irish context and another reason must be found to explain the success of the conquest."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Kevin Patrick Molloy
"The Prince of Firceall of the ancient sword is O'Molloy of the freeborn name, full power was granted to him and he held his country uncontrolled" O'Dugain(d.1372 AD)
kevin714
Active Newbie
Full Name: Kevin Molloy
 
Posts: 148
Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2008 12:00 am
Location: USA
Karma: 0

Re: Irish Warrior

Postby Stephen Curtin on Sun Mar 10, 2013 11:32 am

Kevin, yes Gerald was clearly anti Irish in his writing, and made up all sorts of things to make the Irish look like savage barbarians. His description of Irish clothing and weaponry should be treated with caution, but to me they don't sound too far-fetched. One area where I think that he over generalizes is the use of black woolen clothing, we know from native writers (such as the four masters) that the Irish were very fond of brightly coloured clothes, so as far as I'm concerned, only the lowest of society would be wearing black (undyed) clothes. Also Gerald doesn't mention any swords and shields being used by the Irish, but we know from other sources that they were in use. As for armour I think that Gerald was mostly right, in that the vast majority of Irishmen went into battle without armour, but again native sources proove that, for the rich at least, both mail and some form of textile/leather armour was used.
Stephen Curtin
Active Newbie
Full Name: Stephen Curtin
 
Posts: 74
Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2008 10:59 pm
Karma: 0

Next

Return to Early-Medieval

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

cron