Safe weapon or safe person - using unusual weapons

Irish and European fighting styles and techniques, and the required Arms & Armour

Moderator: the_power

Re: Safe weapon or safe person - using unusual weapons

Postby carraig on Thu May 22, 2008 8:16 pm

Armour doesn't make one immortal. And folks tend to forget it. Instead they go "ooh, now look at that new shining spangenhelm our friend Joe Blow bought - let's hit it hard!". And we know where does that lead.

Let them know they've been hit, but not in an ogrish way! :P
User avatar
carraig
Full Name: Phil Ginalski
 
Posts: 32
Joined: Sat May 19, 2007 11:00 pm
Karma: 11

Re: Safe weapon or safe person - using unusual weapons

Postby brendan on Thu May 22, 2008 9:01 pm

I've only had the 'noise' control thing done with fists on flesh

:shock: ...you might want to rephrase that...

I wear armour a lot.
I have received some fairly crazy blows from people who decide that my armour is there for their amusement:
  • Repeated stabs to the bevor with a spear during battle of the flags
  • Full swing of a two handed dane axe to my leg at Dalkey last year - dent is still there

If you want to prove that you are a good figher when facing armour, then find the weaknesses and work on them. Referring back to the Dalkey gig last year the best kill on me that day was when a spear came out of nowhere and tipped just above the point where the breastplate cut off below the arm. It was a perfect shot which said "In a real battle you would be dead now" but was also entirely safe.

So, go for accuracy over force every time. And if you up the force when facing armour dont be surprised if the armoured person hits you back every bit as hard.

Brendan
User avatar
brendan
Active Newbie
Full Name: Brendan Griffin
 
Posts: 711
Joined: Sun Nov 16, 2003 12:00 am
Location: Nomadic
Karma: 66

Re: Safe weapon or safe person - using unusual weapons

Postby femgeek on Thu May 22, 2008 9:14 pm

brendan wrote:
I've only had the 'noise' control thing done with fists on flesh

:shock: ...you might want to rephrase that...

I wear armour a lot.
I have received some fairly crazy blows from people who decide that my armour is there for their amusement:
  • Repeated stabs to the bevor with a spear during battle of the flags

LOl, ok then the 'noise control' on punching a human. I should read things i post :roll:
cant believe someone went for your bevor, thats where your neck lives, and also your face is nearby.
Audaces Fortuna Juvat
femgeek
Full Name: Muireann Costello
 
Posts: 25
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2007 11:00 pm
Location: Cork
Karma: 2

Re: Safe weapon or safe person - using unusual weapons

Postby brendan on Thu May 22, 2008 9:41 pm

I think that it was armour envy :roll:

as to flails, I never want to see them on a field, though they can in certain circumstances, by a very small number of people, be used safely.
However, I am ALL for letting anyone who thinks they can use a flail safely give a 5 minute demonstration before the battle to put us all into good humour :)

Brendan
User avatar
brendan
Active Newbie
Full Name: Brendan Griffin
 
Posts: 711
Joined: Sun Nov 16, 2003 12:00 am
Location: Nomadic
Karma: 66

Re: Safe weapon or safe person - using unusual weapons

Postby knightofredemption on Thu May 22, 2008 10:22 pm

It is I am afraid true to say that some (a minority I hope) who are out to try to damage armour when they come across it. I have seen it happen, and heard the plans made beforehand (some years ago). Full harness is a large investment (one I am making this season) and its not a licence to beat seven bells out of it and its owner. The skill as Brendan said, is to find the weakness and exploit it. It also requires honesty from the user, Full harness gives the user a couple of hits in hand, we cannot kill each other to prove a shot so we have to rely on playing within the rules.

Best quote I have had while in full harness? "I have seen many suits of armour, but this is the first time I have had a conversation with one"
Everything in moderation, including Moderation.
User avatar
knightofredemption
Site Admin
Full Name: Paul Wickham
 
Posts: 242
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2007 12:00 am
Location: Ballyconnell, Cavan
Karma: 24

Re: Safe weapon or safe person - using unusual weapons

Postby Neil on Fri May 23, 2008 9:41 am

I do think it's important to remember that when wearing armour it can be difficult to actually feel the shot. I fight in and out of armour. Not as heavy as Brendan's but still provides some protection and I have on occassion when fighting some reenactors (particulary from one group where most have no armour) had to tell them to hit harder cause I genuinely could not feel the shots they were landing. I think like everything else in this thread there is no absolute rule. Armour does definitely allow you to go in harder and faster, but it's only at it's most fun if both people are wearing armour. But the aim should not be to destroy someone elses kit. I also lean more towards the school of thought that if someone invests a lot of money on armour they should be able to benefit from it on the field. So in other words if I want to land a kill then I should be aiming for weak points with little or no protection.
Neil
South Dublin Living History Society
User avatar
Neil
Full Name: Neil Byrne
 
Posts: 47
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2006 12:00 am
Location: South Dublin
Karma: 0

Re: Safe weapon or safe person - using unusual weapons

Postby Zip on Fri May 23, 2008 12:57 pm

We did a bit of railway show last year up in Down par tick, it was a grate weekend. Wile we where fighting, some one had the bright idea to go hand to hand to make look more realistic. And yes it was and the public loved it.
Now when we go hand to hand your inclined to say I'll trow you his way and trow me that way so it works out and is contorted and safe, But I find that when you get into it that some times you can lose control.
That's why it needs to be done safely. One of our lads had the pleasure of getting the but of a riffle in the noes. That's why where inclined to avoid it.
but some times you need to go mad like that because the public love it.
My advice to any ww2 reenactment groups if in battle and you diced to go hand to hand control it and do it safely cause it can get ruff and train a few weeks before the show.
Zip
Full Name: Joe Dunne.
 
Posts: 16
Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 7:44 pm
Location: Cork City
Karma: -15

Re: Safe weapon or safe person - using unusual weapons

Postby knightofredemption on Fri May 23, 2008 1:58 pm

You never need to "go mad" just to amuse the public (maybe that was just a poor choice of words). Here is why I am an advocate fight choreography. It is very difficult to fight one on one in a convincing and safe manner unless it is between people who train together on a regular basis. It is now becoming a requirement of many of the gigs our team do, that a risk assessment form is supplied. One of the requirements is that the combatants have trained together to a predefined standard with a clear set of safety rules and with safety equipment. While it is impossible to guarantee no accidents or injuries, organisers now like to see that everything possible has been done to prevent it. The days of re-enactors proudly marching off to the St Johns ambulance nursing a variety of preventable injuries is going to come to an inevitable (and to be quite honest needed) end.
The writing is on the wall people, with health and safety checks, risk assessment forms, and the proposed sword ban (unless you are a member of an authorised WMA group) the days of buying (or making) some kit, playing in a field with your mates for a few weeks and then fielding in a battle are coming to an end.
This is a shame in some ways, but we have been left to our own devices for some years and have not really dealt with some glaring safety issues (moves recently have made some inroads, when is the next train the trainer weekend?)
As re-enactment improves (which it is definitely doing) so too will safety, and safety equipment. Its my hope that combatant training will keep up with the general upward trend in our hobby.
Everything in moderation, including Moderation.
User avatar
knightofredemption
Site Admin
Full Name: Paul Wickham
 
Posts: 242
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2007 12:00 am
Location: Ballyconnell, Cavan
Karma: 24

Re: Safe weapon or safe person - using unusual weapons

Postby martynm on Fri May 23, 2008 2:50 pm

When we take the field of Combat we should be as prepared for all and every eventuality! when i train a group for combat i try to make sure that they can defend as well as attack in a Safe manner . and as a trainer/Re-enactor will research the types of weapons that were used at whatever period we are taking part in and train and prepare people as much as i can ! as that is the responsibility of whoever is in charge of training a Re-enactment group ! wearing Armor and using Shields are for protection and combined with proper training and preparation it does not matter what weapon be it Glaive/Spear/Allspic or whatever you encounter you will have fun and be Safe . {i know that there are a lot of complete morons out there who advocate hitting hard ! and there are also Idiots who say we do not need armor because if we train proper we wont be hit !! } stop bleathing and winging about it and get trained !! its a contact pastime !! Martyn Cu Glas/K.H.I:twisted:
IT"S WHAT I DO !
User avatar
martynm
Full Name: martynm
 
Posts: 32
Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2007 12:00 am
Location: OUTREMER
Karma: 8

Re: Safe weapon or safe person - using unusual weapons

Postby brendan on Fri May 23, 2008 3:17 pm

Best quote I have had while in full harness? "I have seen many suits of armour, but this is the first time I have had a conversation with one"

cooool....full harness...sigh!...some day

In response to Zip, I see that paul and Martyn got there first! Mainly, though I would say that you should never be trying out stuff for the first time at a gig. That is how accidents happen. Most of us do it at some level of course, but the principle is to minimise.
I broadly agree with both MArtyn and Paul, though I think that Paul has added exta ingredients to the mix!

Brendan
User avatar
brendan
Active Newbie
Full Name: Brendan Griffin
 
Posts: 711
Joined: Sun Nov 16, 2003 12:00 am
Location: Nomadic
Karma: 66

PreviousNext

Return to Historic Martial Arts, Arms and Armour

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest