Greetings from Germany

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Greetings from Germany

Postby manfredsorg on Mon Aug 13, 2012 11:16 am

Hello to all of you,
I'm member of the german living history scene since a decade.
I started wearing a kilt and thought it was medieval ...
Nowadays I'm still trying to show the people how Scots were dressed and equipped around 1200.
I've been collecting citations and images for years (around 60 pages) - but there is still not much evidence.
I'm very interested to find other people working on this special topic - until know I didn't find any.
Hoping for constructive discussions.
Le meas,
Gillean
Gillean mac Cormaic / Manfred Sorg - Scottish living history around 1200 in Germany - schottenhof.de
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Re: Greetings from Germany

Postby finnobreanan on Mon Aug 13, 2012 5:30 pm

Gillean,
Welcome! Try the search feature for "Kilt", I am sure there is a thread or two on them. See if you can also get a copy of McClintock, Henry F. "Old Irish Dress and Highland Dress". He exposes the myth about kilts. The earliest documentation is from about 1595, if memory serves me correct.
Finn O'Breanan
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"...The O'Brennans, a sept of thieves without any right or title, ... were a perpetual disturbance to the peace of the county,"
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Re: Greetings from Germany

Postby brendan on Tue Aug 14, 2012 12:40 am

Welcome!
Many of us have had similar moments of realizing that we were working off bad information. Still, it is better to find out.

Mairead Dunleavy's book is another good one if you are interested in specifically Irish. This could be applicable/useful for Scotland.
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Re: Greetings from Germany

Postby oleg on Wed Aug 15, 2012 8:38 am

Hallo Manfred,
Herzlich Willkommen :)

There are at least 2 families in Germany making Irish or hiberno Viking kits for 9-11th AD.
One is based near Frankfurt, another one lives near Munich.

Dress topic is quite complicated, as there is little archaeological material for complete garments.
http://www.bran-deas.kiev.ua
Bran-Deas - group, focused on Ireland(IX-XI) located in Kiev, Ukraine.
Goddammit, sign up for free!
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Re: Greetings from Germany

Postby manfredsorg on Thu Aug 16, 2012 3:28 pm

Thanks to you all.
McClintocks work is in my bookshelf and I'm not searching for any kilt anymore (1595 is the appearance of the great belted plaid, the kilt is in the 18th century).
McClintock and imho Dunleavy are focusing on early modern irish and scottish dress, my focus are the middle ages.
@oleg: Unfortunately they are doing "viking" kits - I know a lot of "vikings" but no gael ;)
I have lots of information and I'm searching for people to discuss them.
Greets, Gillean
Gillean mac Cormaic / Manfred Sorg - Scottish living history around 1200 in Germany - schottenhof.de
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Re: Greetings from Germany

Postby Swifty on Thu Aug 16, 2012 11:51 pm

For a late 12th century source get the illustrated version of 'The History and Topography of Ireland' by Giraldus Cambrensis http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASI ... 73-8484643 - take a look at the contemporary illustrations therein - you will see similarities with some clothing among the from bog excavations in Ireland recorded in Dunlevy's book which have been ascribed later or ambiguous medieval dates. Of course always read Giraldus's text with a cynical eye. It may also be useful for you to know that many of the illustrations are also reproduced in the more accessible Richard Roche's 'Norman Invasion of Ireland': http://www.amazon.co.uk/Norman-Invasion ... 709&sr=1-1 Roche is almost as extreme a hagiographer of the Cambro-Normans as is Cambrensis himself - nevertheless I was surprised to see that the book was for sale in the Sinn Féin bookshop in Dublin last time I looked - a couple of year back now albeit!

Alles bestens/Dave Swift
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Re: Greetings from Germany

Postby manfredsorg on Fri Aug 17, 2012 6:57 am

I already read Gerald of Wales and found some illustrations. I didn't know there was a book-version (thanks!).
McClintock calls the illustrations unreliable - for me it seems they're drawn after the text and not from a eye-witness.

I'm still trying to understand this forum ;) - can I upload a document somewhere? I have about 60 pages of citations and sources on clothing.
Le meas, Gillean
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Re: Greetings from Germany

Postby finnobreanan on Sat Aug 18, 2012 2:12 am

I would agree with Swifty, Roche's book on the Norman invasion has many illustrations. I have a copy on my bookshelf. You can get a copy from the US for $24.00.
http://www.amazon.com/Norman-Invasion-I ... of+Ireland
Finn
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Re: Greetings from Germany

Postby Swifty on Mon Aug 20, 2012 9:25 pm

Yes McClintlock points out that certain 'rites' attached to kingship and written about/illustrated in Giraldus's work are propaganda pandering to an east of the Irish Sea audience - yes. McClintlock died over a half a century ago - many of his theories are correct but many others are wrong. Yes - of course Giraldus must be treated with care - that is true - but I am telling you in the here and now that trews and cloaks depicted by him are borne out by Irish archaeology. You can write to me at dswift.claiomh@gmail.com if you wish to attach anything for my perusal!
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Re: Greetings from Germany

Postby manfredsorg on Tue Aug 21, 2012 7:40 am

Thanks for all your replies :)))
The book is in delivery and, Dave, you have mail ...

Which forum part would fit when I want to write about the period between 1000 and 1400 ?
Is it Late or Early Medieval here? I'd call it "High Medieval".
Gillean mac Cormaic / Manfred Sorg - Scottish living history around 1200 in Germany - schottenhof.de
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