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safety

PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 1:16 pm
by tommyargue
I am aware there is already a thread regarding safety at gigs but I'm not sure which section to find it in. I just thought I would add this link for anyone considering improving their skills on the field http://www.idca.ie/ Stage combat course are run at the giaety school of acting under Paul Burke.http://www.irishtheatreonline.com/ita/i ... 16&id=1212

Re: safety

PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 4:45 pm
by Dave Mooney
Some types of Stage fighting tends to 'aim off'. We 'aim on' and learn to block right. Just a caution to be aware of if mixing methods of demo-ing a fight routine.

Re: safety

PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 10:51 am
by bethc
Okay....I'm having a blonde day.

As a non combatant mere female, (hahaha), I was always under the impression that theatrical stage fighting and field fighting were two very different things. Sure from a safety point of view it would be potentially dangerous to mix the two??

Re: safety

PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 12:41 pm
by Dave Mooney
Potentially to Probably, yes! They're both fine in their own right but mixed could be disastrous. I'd say people should try out the stage fighting as it has it's place at some events or would be useful for new guys or people that don't want to get into the risk of contact combat.

Just don't tell a combat trained guy 'you can fight' and expect to keep your head intact doing stage fighting.

Re: safety

PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 2:02 pm
by tommyargue
I realise the differences between the two but people have to start somewhere and if a newbie to the hobby is unsure of where to start, it is only another option is all.

Re: safety

PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 3:37 pm
by knightofredemption
I have met Paul and seen some of his students perform during an event I was at with Irish Arms. The difference between what they were doing and what happens on a re-enactment field is vast.

I also teach historical sword work and always stress to students, what we do would not work or be safe in the general world of re-enactment. Beginners to re-enactment need to be trained by experienced combat re-enactors. To do otherwise would be counter productive and indeed in the worst case scenario, dangerous.

Stage combat or indeed Western Martial Arts are a different thing entirely, and only work in a choreographed display. While there is a place for this in combat displays, that place is not the melee, nor against other purely re-enactment trained re-enactors.

While I would like to see more choreographed and authentic weapon displays, this can only safely be done by matching like with like. Mix and match (as in the WMA world championships) carries an element of risk that is unacceptable on the re-enactment field.

By all means, the more experienced of us should (and many are) be extending our skills beyond that of re-enactment into WMA or Stage combat in order to be able to put on exiting, and dynamic small scale fights. But beginners wanting to field at a re-enactment must be trained by re-enactors.

Re: safety

PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 10:18 pm
by the_power
I frequently mix the theatrical fighting with melee fighting. I'll often try and drag out someone I know to do a one on one, and go all theatrical on it. It's gotten me in trouble sometimes; in Tewksbury last year, I called out a guy who also had a glaive and we went nuts on each other, intentionally avoiding kill shots. It looked fabulous...but the marshall behind me didn't realise we were being 'theatrical' and beat me pretty hard for coming down on a guys head with a glaive. Oops.

There is nothing worse than going onto the field at a massive gig, coming up against someone you've never fought before, who goes straight for a kill shot, dipping his head, and hoping you don't hit him before he hits you. The end result is that the fight is over in a split second, and the public wonder "what was the point of that?".

John

Re: safety

PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 11:29 pm
by knightofredemption
the_power wrote:
There is nothing worse than going onto the field at a massive gig, coming up against someone you've never fought before, who goes straight for a kill shot, dipping his head, and hoping you don't hit him before he hits you. The end result is that the fight is over in a split second, and the public wonder "what was the point of that?".

John


Oh agreed my last time at a re-enactment battle I had agreed to have a bash with a friend as the archers were charged, two young noobs came at me with spears, I indicated that I was heading for a particular guy for a bit of fun but they ignored me and took me out in about 5 seconds :roll: ...no fun, and I was well pissed off. :evil:

Is being theatrical the same is stage combat? I think not, what your are doing is putting a little show in to your fights but within the safety rules of re-enactment (I would hope) and that's great. You also said you try to face off with someone you know...like versus like. The more we are all reading from the same song sheet the easier that would be.

Re: safety

PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 7:50 am
by Dave Mooney
Some of you that did the King Arthur shoot will remember the level of injuries from putting the untrained with the re-enactors. The solution was to have the re-enactors train a partner in a fight routine and stick to that. This worked really well. In the middle of a shot the director called for us to 'keep fighting'. Many peoples fights came to an end before the end of the shot. My routine with my partner was designed to stop at 3 different points or go into a loop. Some lads to my left had finished with the result of one dead and the other one (non-re-enactor) went looking for another kill instead of being found standing still in the shot. He targeted me. He attacked me by trying a blind side attack. I picked up his attack, twacked him in the ribs for his troubles (I had a rubber sword that day) and still picked up my partners next attack and we continued till we heard 'cut'. The point I'm making is that if it wasn't for my 'battle field' training that could have been messy and painful (likely for me as we had our routine up to some speed) and someone that only did choreography stuff wouldn't know what to do or have the instincts to deal with multiple un-prescribe attacks. There is a lot more to re-enactment fighting than just one-to-one, so that needs bearing in mind.

This is why games like 'Circle of treachery' are an important part of training.

Noobs do need to be thought about on filed communications and stuff like that fact that some experienced fighters may be spoiling to meet an old mate on the field and to watch for the 'leave me alone' signs.

John has checked with me before a demo if I'm ok with big telegraphed head shots. This is good practice as 1. they make for good crowed please-er and 2. what he's asking is "Will you freeze if I make a shot at your head?". (I should point out that this was with spears and those attacks were 1/4 staff and swinging and NOT stabs!!) Sceptics in the audience can see the theatrical stuff but don't whine cause they can see the real un-prescribed stuff blended in.