Clontarf Plans and Ideas.

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Re: Clontarf Plans and Ideas.

Postby wolfvine on Sun Jan 04, 2009 10:59 pm

the_power wrote:That's a tricky question; part of me would like to use a kit guide as an excuse to make sure the four different components looked a little different; you should be able to tell munstermen from leinstermen, and Dubliners from Corkmen, maybe even Man vikings from their Irish brethern.

Even if we could say "50% of munstermen should have spears, big shields, and big swords, 100% of leinstermen have spears and small swords"...but I've not done the research. I'll look into it this month.

John


Hi John. I have read that at the battle of Clontarf the only way you could tell both armies apart were by the banners and flags they carried.
What about the Limerick Vikings that marched to Dublin on the side of Boru ? is there more info there ?

I'm just thinking, should we be concentrating on types of kit right now?
Venue, Scale of the event, Funding, Numbers, Insurance and dealing with various Government/Council bodies should be first on our list. What do you think ?

SEAN
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Re: Clontarf Plans and Ideas.

Postby Seathrun on Mon Jan 05, 2009 12:02 am

Yeah Sean is right. Kinda putting the cart before the horse on planning the details with out knowing the event will happen.
Or do we want several groups working on parts of the event. You know that awful word committe. I would be glad to help on Kit. I am not much good on this side of the world for the local set up plans. I am checking on funds from my local and then working up to the national Hibernian groups here in the states. If they can give money for education in the north and memorials for the famine etc they should be able to kick in some for this grand adventure. I just need to put it in a christian vs pagan or native vs invader context then show how it was the last major battle till the Normans came with Strong bow and how that lead to the troubles. oh my.
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Three speeches that are better than silence: inciting a king to battle,spreading knowledge, praise after reward.
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Re: Clontarf Plans and Ideas.

Postby brendan on Mon Jan 05, 2009 11:08 am

There is no reason why the different elements cannot be looked at in parallel. - Kit needs to be figured out by no later than 18 - 24 months before hand if you want to get people to a certain specific look/standard.

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Re: Clontarf Plans and Ideas.

Postby Dave Mooney on Mon Jan 05, 2009 12:01 pm

Given the resistance of some to get their kit right anyway it's never too early to start talking about it. We need to build a mental image of what the whole package could look like and how the devil will be in the detail.

Venue (that will be 'venues') et al will need thinking about when we have an idea of the scale that fellow stakeholders are willing to take the project to. That is, how practical will some of our ideas be, and how serious will we be taken by them. Potential venues need to be included in our 'Discussion document'...which should be emerging out of the back end of Christmas very soon. As things flesh out factors such as numbers, accommodation and insurance will manifest. Insurance will be further down the line when we know what we need the cover for in order to stipulate in the policy.

Avoid the term Committee, think more 'Work group/s'. And yes, this will need several groups taking on different aspects. There is a diverse skill set amongst re-enactors alone, so we should try to get those skills doing what they know best towards this event. Re-enactment is not the only 'skill', some are already operating outside of that box.
These groups can operate over the net and/or phone as a lot of stuff will be written and administration.
For example, If it comes down to structures then only those with Archaeological backgrounds should team lead those projects. Organisers, planners and mangers should organise, plan and manage and when it comes down to the re-enactment end of it, costume and LHE specialists should play a part in the generation of kit and equipment guides etc. Combat events will need a planner and several 'captains' to manage each unit safely. With big numbers on the field safety marshals will need to step up and Non-Com to keep things safe and moving to plan etc. There is much delegation to decide on.

Cross cultural/state funding should be available. We should be able to avail of funds between European states at any rate.

Sean, I posted a mention of Banners that was sent to me by Dr. Cathy Swift (MIC) a few weeks ago. She's looking into this at the moment and the 'Forum for History and Heritage' (FHH) will be coming along side on this soon to lend a hand. (Their 1st focus is the Glendalough event). Also, we'll need to talk to you about doing something with your school as part of the FHH pilot. Other teachers, heritage site people, tour guides etc. please PM me on that.

Dave.
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Re: Clontarf Plans and Ideas.

Postby the_power on Mon Jan 05, 2009 8:33 pm

wolfvine wrote:Hi John. I have read that at the battle of Clontarf the only way you could tell both armies apart were by the banners and flags they carried.
What about the Limerick Vikings that marched to Dublin on the side of Boru ? is there more info there ?


Well, that's likely not quite true. I'm sure some people couldn't tell english from germans during WWII at times because of the crap all over their uniforms. But you still could work it out. And non-battlefield kit would be quite different too. As Dave said, there are some interesting translations on the way out of acedemia which can shed a lot of light on these questions.

I'm just thinking, should we be concentrating on types of kit right now?
Venue, Scale of the event, Funding, Numbers, Insurance and dealing with various Government/Council bodies should be first on our list. What do you think ?


I've seen a few gigs billed as 'Battle of Clontarf' already. I'd like those people to have kit guides as soon as possible, so people know what to expect for the Big Day. In fact, I would expect that we'll run a few trial runs of Clontarf, before 2014. Also, people can work on stuff in parallel. I'm more interested in the kit & accuracy of stuff than the funding, for instance. I also know a lot more about kit than large-scale cash extraction!

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Re: Clontarf Plans and Ideas.

Postby Seathrun on Mon Jan 05, 2009 11:59 pm

Ok so we need a funding work group, a venue group, LH and combat kit group, some idea who will run the site privys, crowd orientation, vender contact for food stand and the market, etc. I think thats the main areas. Anyone want a certain area or two? I can do kit.

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Re: Clontarf Plans and Ideas.

Postby Dave Mooney on Tue Jan 06, 2009 12:43 am

I'd say a lot of the site services will be handled by a professional events company under contract form the like of Dublin City council etc. The likes of stalls would be a sticking point as I don't like them near the LHE camp. See Tweksbury for the way I'd keep them apart.
My main concern right now would be that we get our recommendations in first and have 'how to' info to back it up so they they do come to us for it and no one else, plus we get our imprint on the whole scheme early. Showing organisation we should have the template of the LHE/Combat elements readied so the stake holders with the purse strings don't have to look any further then us and we get to be ambassadors for Irish Re-enactment to all our foreign friends...and their classy long boats :D

Let's see the discussion document and deliberate that before we start taking on jobs. It's still early for that end of it and there will be a large 'change of the guard' by then anyway. any of us could be gone to god or just throw in the towel by then.

In a "Ask not what your country can do for you but what you can do for your country" kind of way, I would encourage everyone to think about what they can do for this project and we'll see how we all fit in closer to the time.

As for lead up, well that's a different thing. Lets hear the prelude event ideas?
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Re: Clontarf Plans and Ideas.

Postby brendan on Tue Jan 06, 2009 11:09 am

I have started work on the document and will have an early draft by the weekend.
I am waiting for some other people to get back to me (must remind them!) so it may take another week or so before it is finalised

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Re: Clontarf Plans and Ideas.

Postby Seathrun on Tue Jan 06, 2009 10:36 pm

cheers for Brendon
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Trí labra ata ferr túa: ochán ríg do chath, sreth immais, molad iar lúag.
Three speeches that are better than silence: inciting a king to battle,spreading knowledge, praise after reward.
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Re: Clontarf Plans and Ideas.

Postby nathan on Wed Jan 07, 2009 8:31 pm

hi all i know this is slighlty off topic but does anyone know any good books on brian boru i have book vouchers knocking about after xmas that i want to use on something useful. if anyone knows of any can they pm that info to me thanks all :D
for here starts war carrion birds sing, and grey wolves howl
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