A&A Sword

England from the Tudors to the Stewarts, Flight of the Irish Earls, the Discovery of the Americas and Global Trade

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Re: A&A Sword

Postby Swifty on Tue Dec 21, 2010 12:20 am

The sword on the left in those pictures is the Tullylough Sword from Co Longford - to date it is the only ring-pommeled sword to feature a hexagonal shape on the outer edge of the pommel. You can find the rest of the details in Halpin's pamplet.

In answer to your previous question I will certainly post up some pics of some of my Gaelic AC swords - but I'll need a bit of time to sort that out. For now you can check out some of the swords here on Claíomh's FB page:
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid= ... 7882013099

Have a cool yule and let us know what you think of the A&A sword when it arrives!
D Swift www.claiomh.ie c.795-1660
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Re: A&A Sword

Postby kevin714 on Tue Dec 21, 2010 1:05 am

Thanks Swifty, looking forward to seeing those pics. This Tullylough swords guard looks similiar to the A&A swords at least to me, the description says it has" straight arms ending in flattened fan shaped terminals which are curved vertically in opposite directions." What exactly does curved vertically mean? Can you help me visualize that. I have yet to find an example with fan shaped terminals that is not somehow curved or s shaped if I find one I will probably not request it on my A&A sword. I was hoping this was it. Although the personal customization has a certain appeal to me also.
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MA.5.IRISH.L98w32TullyloughIreIMS.jpg
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"The Prince of Firceall of the ancient sword is O'Molloy of the freeborn name, full power was granted to him and he held his country uncontrolled" O'Dugain(d.1372 AD)
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Re: A&A Sword

Postby Swifty on Tue Dec 21, 2010 1:33 am

What I presume they mean by 'curved vertically' must be a reference to the fact that the very last few milimetres of both quillons are twisted in opposing directions - it is not something which really affects the overall profile of the quillons - both of the spatula projections are still essentially flat. It is but a finishing touch or flourish to the edge of the terminals and there is no way that the quillons could be considered to be S-shaped in profile. Now - good night!!
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Re: A&A Sword

Postby kevin714 on Thu Dec 23, 2010 12:16 am

Hello Swifty I hope your awake but feel free to answer this at a descent hour I don't want you to lose any beauty sleep :D . Its 7:15pm here in the Eastern USA not sure what the time difference is off hand. Anyway can you or anyone else identify this sword from the Belfast Museum? The blade looks similiar to the A&A from this picture, a type XVIII maybe? Diamond section with no fuller? Does anyone have a proper description of it?
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Re: A&A Sword

Postby kevin714 on Thu Dec 23, 2010 12:21 am

I justed checked the time difference, you are 5 hours ahead of me so its after midnight for you so feel free to wait till tomorrow to answer, I won't mind.
Kevin Patrick Molloy
"The Prince of Firceall of the ancient sword is O'Molloy of the freeborn name, full power was granted to him and he held his country uncontrolled" O'Dugain(d.1372 AD)
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Re: A&A Sword

Postby kevin714 on Fri Dec 24, 2010 2:48 am

kevin714 wrote:Hello Swifty I hope your awake but feel free to answer this at a descent hour I don't want you to lose any beauty sleep :D . Its 7:15pm here in the Eastern USA not sure what the time difference is off hand. Anyway can you or anyone else identify this sword from the Belfast Museum? The blade looks similiar to the A&A from this picture, a type XVIII maybe? Diamond section with no fuller? Does anyone have a proper description of it?


Well ya learn something new everyday they say. I was right this sword is a type XVIII with Diamond section and no fuller. So there is evidence of these swords from finds in Ireland and not just art work. Here is a description from someone who handled it posted on MyArmoury.com. I feel even better about buying the A&A sword now. If anyone has anything further on this sword I would still like to know. And any pictures or sketch's would be great.

..........................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

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Posted: Today at 12:34 am Post subject:
Hello,
What information do you want on that sword?
I was there about a year ago to study some Viking era swords... I did get sidetracked a few times with other pieces, including that sword, I examined it for a bit, and handled it briefly.
I didn't take particularly detailed notes on it as I was not there to study that type. Also, I legally cannot post photos of the sword, so the best I can do is describe my impressions of it. I will write all I can recollect.

The sword is in a very pristine condition, it was found by a farmer in a field. The blade was most likely not broken until the farmer hit it with his equipment. It is unfortunate, however it would probably still be siting in the ground had he not hit it.
The blade is very lightly hollow-ground, if I recall. There are multiple nicks along the blade consistent with a well used sword.
Near either end of the tang there are grip remnants. At the top (near the pommel) there is remaining wire, and wood. On the bottom (near the blade) there is a bit of wood and some wire. The grip would have been quite thin originally. On the cross there are remnants of what appeared to be a chappe. The guard is formed in an S-shape, similar to this one by A&A. However, the guard does not have the beveled edges seen on that sword guard. The blade was an Oakeshott XVIIIb.

Cheers!
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Posted: Today at 12:40 am Post subject:
Quote:
Belfast. Blade seems to Oakeshott XVIII - fullered (?).


It is not fullered, it is of diamond cross section and is lightly hollow-ground.
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Re: A&A Sword

Postby Swifty on Fri Dec 24, 2010 3:33 am

kevin714 wrote:Hello Swifty I hope your awake but feel free to answer this at a descent hour I don't want you to lose any beauty sleep :D . Its 7:15pm here in the Eastern USA not sure what the time difference is off hand. Anyway can you or anyone else identify this sword from the Belfast Museum? The blade looks similiar to the A&A from this picture, a type XVIII maybe? Diamond section with no fuller? Does anyone have a proper description of it?

Well thanks for the recon pic from the north! Yes I have also heard about this sword in the Ulster Museum but don't know exactly which townland it is from - havn't been up there since last years refurbishment - I believe it is a relatively recent acquisition.

I think that the diamond section blade is more reminicent of German and Northern Italian hand-and-a-half blades of the fifteenth century which is interesting - perhaps a sixteenth-century refit. It's taper is consistent in the continental European style - but not really like the Ashmoleum sword-blades in profile with their straight sides and angular tips. So the A&A sword is still good archaeologically from a blade point of view - although I do think that that the quillons of the A&A are too proportionally wide to be a close match for the Tullylough example and obviously the ring-pommel is well-off - it being more like the River Suck example. As I was pointing out what you're gonna have is a good composite which is not one sword in particular but one which draws its inspiration from at least three extant examples.

Just to set the cat amongst the pigeons: check out Osprey MAA 399 Medieval Scandinavian Armies (2) 1300-1500 p. 14 - Plate E - yes it is most likely Danish (!) but that's the sword that is the best match for what's in the cabinet - diamond section/ring-pommel. Also check out colour plate G1 for McBride's interpretation.

Btw it is nice to see the Lough Neagh sword in the same cabinet on public display again - must head up to Belfast next year when I get the chance!
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Re: A&A Sword

Postby kevin714 on Fri Dec 24, 2010 5:24 am

Swifty wrote:
kevin714 wrote:Hello Swifty I hope your awake but feel free to answer this at a descent hour I don't want you to lose any beauty sleep :D . Its 7:15pm here in the Eastern USA not sure what the time difference is off hand. Anyway can you or anyone else identify this sword from the Belfast Museum? The blade looks similiar to the A&A from this picture, a type XVIII maybe? Diamond section with no fuller? Does anyone have a proper description of it?

Well thanks for the recon pic from the north! Yes I have also heard about this sword in the Ulster Museum but don't know exactly which townland it is from - havn't been up there since last years refurbishment - I believe it is a relatively recent acquisition.

I think that the diamond section blade is more reminicent of German and Northern Italian hand-and-a-half blades of the fifteenth century which is interesting - perhaps a sixteenth-century refit. It's taper is consistent in the continental European style - but not really like the Ashmoleum sword-blades in profile with their straight sides and angular tips. So the A&A sword is still good archaeologically from a blade point of view - although I do think that that the quillons of the A&A are too proportionally wide to be a close match for the Tullylough example and obviously the ring-pommel is well-off - it being more like the River Suck example. As I was pointing out what you're gonna have is a good composite which is not one sword in particular but one which draws its inspiration from at least three extant examples.

Just to set the cat amongst the pigeons: check out Osprey MAA 399 Medieval Scandinavian Armies (2) 1300-1500 p. 14 - Plate E - yes it is most likely Danish (!) but that's the sword that is the best match for what's in the cabinet - diamond section/ring-pommel. Also check out colour plate G1 for McBride's interpretation.

Btw it is nice to see the Lough Neagh sword in the same cabinet on public display again - must head up to Belfast next year when I get the chance!


Glad to be of assistance, I'm waiting on some more info from the source to see if he knows what year it was found and where. I'm ok with a composite, the kern is basically a composite also and I am very happy with that. I am in touch with Armour class and I think maybe my next acquisition will be an exact replica of one of the existing examples like what you have done. It just may be awhile. Don't forget about posting those pictures. And thanks for the Lough Neagh identification I was wondering which one that was.

Can I view the Osprey pictures at there site or can you post the pictures? I don't have that book.
Kevin Patrick Molloy
"The Prince of Firceall of the ancient sword is O'Molloy of the freeborn name, full power was granted to him and he held his country uncontrolled" O'Dugain(d.1372 AD)
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Re: A&A Sword

Postby kevin714 on Mon Dec 27, 2010 2:24 am

Does anyone have any pictures of this sword(The River Bann/Portglenone) they could post?
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Kevin Patrick Molloy
"The Prince of Firceall of the ancient sword is O'Molloy of the freeborn name, full power was granted to him and he held his country uncontrolled" O'Dugain(d.1372 AD)
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Re: A&A Sword

Postby kevin714 on Thu Dec 30, 2010 10:59 pm

If anyone is interested here is a picture of my A&A sword after they counter curved the guard for me. I think it looks pretty cool from this angle. I'm hoping they send me some more pictures of it.
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Kevin Patrick Molloy
"The Prince of Firceall of the ancient sword is O'Molloy of the freeborn name, full power was granted to him and he held his country uncontrolled" O'Dugain(d.1372 AD)
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