Scians

England from the Tudors to the Stewarts, Flight of the Irish Earls, the Discovery of the Americas and Global Trade

Moderator: the_power

Re: Scians

Postby Swifty on Wed Aug 05, 2009 10:32 pm

Here's a scian of mine which is by Irish Arms. The sheath, which I made myself, is based on a bog find from Kilcumber in Co Offaly.
Image
D Swift www.claiomh.ie c.795-1660
User avatar
Swifty
Active Newbie
Full Name: Dave Swift
 
Posts: 202
Joined: Mon May 12, 2008 4:39 pm
Location: Dublin
Karma: 0

Re: Scians

Postby Billy on Thu Aug 06, 2009 12:15 am

Fair play Swifty, that's some nice handiwork.
Do you make much of your own gear?
Billy MagFhloinn
User avatar
Billy
Active Newbie
Real Name: None Set
 
Posts: 247
Joined: Thu Oct 16, 2003 11:00 pm
Location: Limerick
Karma: 32

Re: Scians

Postby Dave Mooney on Thu Aug 06, 2009 9:31 pm

Other photos of Irish Arms products.
Attachments
sciens.jpg
sciens.jpg (21.64 KiB) Viewed 6557 times
Dave Mooney.
Mogh Roith- Historical Living History Group. http://moghroith.org
User avatar
Dave Mooney
Active Newbie
Full Name: Dave Mooney
 
Posts: 422
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2003 11:00 pm
Location: Mounshannon, Co. Clare
Karma: 34

Re: Scians

Postby kevin714 on Thu Aug 06, 2009 11:20 pm

Very nice, I wish I could get one. They look double edged but are single correct? Has anyone seen a Georgin Quma, it looks similiar to me at least, but it is double edged and on the wider side.
Kevin Patrick Molloy
"The Prince of Firceall of the ancient sword is O'Molloy of the freeborn name, full power was granted to him and he held his country uncontrolled" O'Dugain(d.1372 AD)
kevin714
Active Newbie
Full Name: Kevin Molloy
 
Posts: 148
Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2008 12:00 am
Location: USA
Karma: 0

Re: Scians

Postby Dave Mooney on Fri Aug 07, 2009 10:38 am

They are single edged with a chunky enough back to the blade from hilt to about 3/4s way along, then the section changes to a shallow diamond double edge for last 1/4.
The are like a narrow scram that becomes a stiletto. This makes them good blocking knives because the chunky single edge section is a good soaker and you have needle puncture ability, for punching through chain mail, at the real business end. A very good supplement to a sword, if not on it's own.
Dave Mooney.
Mogh Roith- Historical Living History Group. http://moghroith.org
User avatar
Dave Mooney
Active Newbie
Full Name: Dave Mooney
 
Posts: 422
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2003 11:00 pm
Location: Mounshannon, Co. Clare
Karma: 34

Re: Scians

Postby Swifty on Fri Aug 14, 2009 12:25 am

Billy wrote:Fair play Swifty, that's some nice handiwork.
Do you make much of your own gear?


Thanks Billy. I just really make the leather gear: scabbards, belts, targes/shields etc. There's enough in that to keep me busy enough!
D Swift www.claiomh.ie c.795-1660
User avatar
Swifty
Active Newbie
Full Name: Dave Swift
 
Posts: 202
Joined: Mon May 12, 2008 4:39 pm
Location: Dublin
Karma: 0

Re: Scians

Postby kevin714 on Fri Sep 03, 2010 8:56 pm

What is an historically accurate blade length or range of lengths for a scian? Does anyone have museum photo's with dimensions.
Kevin Patrick Molloy
"The Prince of Firceall of the ancient sword is O'Molloy of the freeborn name, full power was granted to him and he held his country uncontrolled" O'Dugain(d.1372 AD)
kevin714
Active Newbie
Full Name: Kevin Molloy
 
Posts: 148
Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2008 12:00 am
Location: USA
Karma: 0

Re: Scians

Postby kevin714 on Mon Nov 01, 2010 10:47 pm

Dave Mooney wrote:They are single edged with a chunky enough back to the blade from hilt to about 3/4s way along, then the section changes to a shallow diamond double edge for last 1/4.
The are like a narrow scram that becomes a stiletto. This makes them good blocking knives because the chunky single edge section is a good soaker and you have needle puncture ability, for punching through chain mail, at the real business end. A very good supplement to a sword, if not on it's own.

Can anyone tell me more about the use of scians in combat? It seems to me that without a guard it might be kind of difficult to puncture with it. It would seem that your hand may run down into the blade. Am I missing something? What was the tecnique used to effectively use this weapon, does anyone know?

Thanks
Kevin Patrick Molloy
"The Prince of Firceall of the ancient sword is O'Molloy of the freeborn name, full power was granted to him and he held his country uncontrolled" O'Dugain(d.1372 AD)
kevin714
Active Newbie
Full Name: Kevin Molloy
 
Posts: 148
Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2008 12:00 am
Location: USA
Karma: 0

Re: Scians

Postby Swifty on Tue Nov 02, 2010 1:33 am

For what its worth my observance is that scians excelled in stabbing (with the sharply tapered point) and slashing (the heavy blunt back-edge adding strength to the blade especially in a downward strike) against unarmoured opponents. Against armoured foes - the weapon could have been used in a similar fashion to the rondel dagger e.g. during the Wars Of The Roses - i.e. used between the weak spots in the harness - or, if desperate need required it - to directly penetrate inferior quality mail. I agree that it would have been at the very least a difficult task to pierce good quality mail - especially of smaller ring sizes backed up with a good thickly-layered cotún - the resulting damage being quite likely only minor or negligible to the wearer - but with the scian in the hand of a hardened 16th buannacht or kern who knows? Some day when I have the time and the inclination, I may try out the required archaeological experimentation and when I do I will most certainly post the results here. Naturally the users of such weapons - mainly kern - were up against their own kind for the most part and so the penetration of armour was not deemed a priority. As for the grip of the weapon - I have never noticed any particular difficulty that would set the scian at a disadvantage to, say, a kidney/bollock dagger for example. To answer your earlier question regarding the length of the scian - I will check that for you in the next short while when I get the chance.
D Swift www.claiomh.ie c.795-1660
User avatar
Swifty
Active Newbie
Full Name: Dave Swift
 
Posts: 202
Joined: Mon May 12, 2008 4:39 pm
Location: Dublin
Karma: 0

Re: Scians

Postby kevin714 on Tue Nov 02, 2010 1:50 am

Swifty wrote:For what its worth my observance is that scians excelled in stabbing (with the sharply tapered point) and slashing (the heavy blunt back-edge adding strength to the blade especially in a downward strike) against unarmoured opponents. Against armoured foes - the weapon could have been used in a similar fashion to the rondel dagger e.g. during the Wars Of The Roses - i.e. used between the weak spots in the harness - or, if desperate need required it - to directly penetrate inferior quality mail. I agree that it would have been at the very least a difficult task to pierce good quality mail - especially of smaller ring sizes backed up with a good thickly-layered cotún - the resulting damage being quite likely only minor or negligible to the wearer - but with the scian in the hand of a hardened 16th buannacht or kern who knows? Some day when I have the time and the inclination, I may try out the required archaeological experimentation and when I do I will most certainly post the results here. Naturally the users of such weapons - mainly kern - were up against their own kind for the most part and so the penetration of armour was not deemed a priority. As for the grip of the weapon - I have never noticed any particular difficulty that would set the scian at a disadvantage to, say, a kidney/bollock dagger for example. To answer your earlier question regarding the length of the scian - I will check that for you in the next short while when I get the chance.


Thanks Dave, How does the grip on this scian look to you? Does it fit the bill as an historically accurate piece that would have been good for combat use?
Attachments
Sk002.jpg
Sk002.jpg (101.95 KiB) Viewed 6395 times
Kevin Patrick Molloy
"The Prince of Firceall of the ancient sword is O'Molloy of the freeborn name, full power was granted to him and he held his country uncontrolled" O'Dugain(d.1372 AD)
kevin714
Active Newbie
Full Name: Kevin Molloy
 
Posts: 148
Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2008 12:00 am
Location: USA
Karma: 0

PreviousNext

Return to Early Modern

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

cron